Chord Track?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
MidiToGuitar
KVRist
133 posts since 5 May, 2016

Post Mon May 28, 2018 9:27 am

Hi:
Are there any plugins available that will perform the same function as Presonus Studio One 4 Chord Track ?

I like this feature but I don't to purchase a new DAW. (I already own Ableton Live 9 and Samplitude Pro X 3.)

untimelyman
KVRist
49 posts since 28 Mar, 2014

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 10:01 am

For Midi:

RapidComposer - much better than Chord Track. It has several algorithmic generators, idea tool, custom chord rules, custom voicings, libraries etc.

Harmony Navigator / Synfire - much better than Chord Track. They have a comprehensive and intelligent chord palette which is far better than the circle of fifths one in S1. They have a harmonizer which can find suitable chords for even solo melodies, something S1 can't do. They have the most comprehensive voiceleading algorithm in the industry. Suits very well for orchestral music. The big brother Synfire is even better.

J74 Progressive and J74 HarmoTools - Max4live plugins, so integrated with Live.

For Audio:

Chordino VAMP plugin - apparently S1 uses this open source plugin for extracting chords from audio. You can use the plugin for free in Audacity or Sonic Visualizer.

Zynaptiq Pitchmap - by far the best audio re-harmonizer in the industry. Unlike Chord Track, Pitchmap is real-time and it gives far better results.

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tonedef71
KVRian
948 posts since 21 Sep, 2007 from USA

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 11:18 am

untimelyman wrote:For Audio:

Chordino VAMP plugin - apparently S1 uses this open source plugin for extracting chords from audio. You can use the plugin for free in Audacity or Sonic Visualizer.

Zynaptiq Pitchmap - by far the best audio re-harmonizer in the industry. Unlike Chord Track, Pitchmap is real-time and it gives far better results.
RiffStation Pro is now free; it also does decent chord detection.
[Intel Core i7 8700 | 32GB DDR4 | Studio One 4 Pro; FL Studio 20; Waveform 9; RapidComposer; Sundog Song Studio; Orb Composer; Pizzicato; Odesi | FL Studio ASIO (WASAPI) | Win10 x64]

Dunbar
KVRist
499 posts since 28 Apr, 2004 from location: location

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 11:27 am

As mentioned above, check out RapidComposer. It does a lot more than S1's simple chord track, it's a good all round composing and learning aid. there's a demo version if you want to test:

http://www.musicdevelopments.com/demo.html
eh?

starflakeprj
KVRian
887 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 11:45 am

You could also check out Captain Plugins from Mixed In Key. So far only Captain Chords and Captain Play are available for Windows, but Captain Melody and Captain Deep are coming (soon I hope).

https://mixedinkey.com/captain-plugins/

They are simpler than RapidComposer, but easier to work with, and also better looking (even though this is subjective).
Intel Core i7-4930K @ 4.1GHz | 64GB DDR3 | 3 x Nvidia GTX 780 | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit | Arturia AudioFuse | M-Audio Code61
Studio One 4.1 | Reason 10.2 | Bitwig Studio 2.4 | Reaper 5.95 | Renoise 3.1 | FL Studio 20 | 460+ VSTs | 170+ Rack Extensions

Trancit
KVRAF
1952 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 1:00 pm

Somehow you all have a different understanding of what a chord track is than me...

For me, what you are suggesting here are midi plugins, which create midi chords...

Again for me a chord track is something more integrated into the DAW like having a track, where I define and can change afterwards the harmonic structure of my song over time...

Of course, that can be done with the most of your suggestions as well, but where they fail is, that you don´t have the possibility ON THE FLY to change your mind later on... easily changing the whole chord/scale structure of parts of the song or the whole song by changing one setting ...and all tracks of your song are following automatically ...

This is only possible with a real chord track like Cubase, Studio One or Waveform have got...
The only midi plugin, which come closest to this is Melodic Flow from Feel your Sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz1FpXlyrG4

untimelyman
KVRist
49 posts since 28 Mar, 2014

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 10:49 pm

Actually J74 HarmoTools has a better integration than Melodic Flow. With HarmoTools you don't have to do the routing. You just have to put a little max plugin on tracks that need to be harmonized.

That said, the benefits of RapidComposer/Synfire far outweigh the 'integration' of Chord Track. And even without the integration the workflow is not that bad. Both RC and Synfire follow DAW's tempo and timeline. Keep instruments and audio files in the DAW, route RC/Synfire to the instruments and compose all the midi parts in RC/Synfire. You can also import midi files. Once the composition is done, save the project within RC/Synfire and drag and drop midi files into the DAW for mixing. If you want to change something, go back to the saved project in RC/Synfire. They also have libraries where you can save individual chord progressions and midi clips so you don't have to open the whole project when you need to change something. I know this is not as elegant as Chord Track but it's not a deal breaker.

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antic604
KVRAF
2036 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Chord Track?

Post Mon May 28, 2018 11:23 pm

Trancit wrote:Of course, that can be done with the most of your suggestions as well, but where they fail is, that you don´t have the possibility ON THE FLY to change your mind later on... easily changing the whole chord/scale structure of parts of the song or the whole song by changing one setting ...and all tracks of your song are following automatically ...
Great post! This is exactly what makes properly implemented chord track a great tool, largely irreplaceable by a single plugin. Most people only see it as a device that: a) detects chords, b) plays chords from single note, c) suggests chord progression. That's only the start :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Surface Pro 4
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

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tonedef71
KVRian
948 posts since 21 Sep, 2007 from USA

Re: Chord Track?

Post Tue May 29, 2018 5:08 am

I think that MIDI-based song prototyping tools, of which many come to mind (e.g. Music Developments RapidComposer; Cognitone Synfire; FeelYourSound Sundog Song Studio; ChordWizard SongTrix; ArpegeMusic Pizzicato; HarmonyBuilder; WaveDNA Liquid Music; TanagerAudioworks SongFrame; J74 Progressive Standalone; MixedInKeys Captain Plugins; CodeFN42 Plugins; MidiMood Kameleono; MidiMadness; Plugin Boutique Scaler; W.A.Production InstaChord; Mozaic Beats AutoTheory; AutoTonic; FrozenPlain Obelisk; FeelYourSound MelodicFlow; Synleor Harmony Improvisator; etc.) are more flexible than a dedicated chord track in a DAW. Some of these tools are MIDI plugins and some are standalone MIDI applications. Generated MIDI made with the standalone tools can usually be dragged/imported into a DAW and will probably work synergistically with a DAW's dedicated chord track. MIDI software tools for sketching musical ideas that fit within a harmonic progression have never been more prolific.
[Intel Core i7 8700 | 32GB DDR4 | Studio One 4 Pro; FL Studio 20; Waveform 9; RapidComposer; Sundog Song Studio; Orb Composer; Pizzicato; Odesi | FL Studio ASIO (WASAPI) | Win10 x64]

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bharris22
KVRian
1442 posts since 3 Mar, 2010

Re: Chord Track?

Post Tue May 29, 2018 5:44 am

I know the OP said that they didn't want to purchase a new DAW, but Tracktion Waveform 8 does exactly this, and can be had on the Marketplace second-hand for less than most plugins.

Rajiv
KVRist
78 posts since 1 Sep, 2006

Re: Chord Track?

Post Tue May 29, 2018 7:07 am

bharris22 wrote:I know the OP said that they didn't want to purchase a new DAW, but Tracktion Waveform 8 does exactly this, and can be had on the Marketplace second-hand for less than most plugins.
It looks like (from the training videos for Tracktion), that Tracktion has the MIDI composition features of Sundog or RapidCompower built in. Which is super slick, but not as slick as what Presonus Studio One 4 does (again, per tutorial videos). Studio One says it can extract chords from MIDI OR Audio into a master chord track. Then, users can change the chords (say from a major to a minor chord), and Studio One will modify all MIDI and audio tracks to the new chords. To my knowledge (and first hand experience with some of the tools in this thread), none of these tools do that.

It looks a little fidgety to make it work in Studio One -- the video I watched on it spent a lot of time just setting up the tracks and detecting the chords. But if it works as advertised, it really expands the possibility for experimentation.

Trancit
KVRAF
1952 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Chord Track?

Post Tue May 29, 2018 1:47 pm

Rajiv wrote: It looks like (from the training videos for Tracktion), that Tracktion has the MIDI composition features of Sundog or RapidCompower built in. Which is super slick, but not as slick as what Presonus Studio One 4 does (again, per tutorial videos). Studio One says it can extract chords from MIDI OR Audio into a master chord track. Then, users can change the chords (say from a major to a minor chord), and Studio One will modify all MIDI and audio tracks to the new chords. To my knowledge (and first hand experience with some of the tools in this thread), none of these tools do that.
It depends, what you are looking at...

For me, I don´t have any need for post production chord analyzing, where S1 shines...

Waveform wins for me, because I cannot get enough help out of S1´s implementation...
S1 Chord track doesn´t let you restrict it to the chords fitting to your chosen scale even if you can set it for the song...
It always shows you all available chords and you have to know which ones to use and which not... wtf... that´s silly imho... In Waveform you choose a scale for the song and the chord track shows you, which ones to use for being "in scale"

Second, Waveform has a very neat pattern creation feature, which is great for trying out different rythmic or harmonic structures...
Waveform as well lets you change globally for a selected clip chord inversion, octave etc...as well as using "newer" chords like open chords (Third one octave up) root note doubled one octave below/one octave up... everything you need in modern dance music... in S1 you have to do this all manually

For me, S1 wins in only one point: It works with "normal" midi clips, no matter how you have changed it manually...
In Waveform, if you changed the from Waveform created pattern, it gets excluded from the chord track follow... until you save your changed midi as a pattern preset and load this into the clip...
That´s a bit cumbersome... there is S1´s solution more user friendly and flexible... but I think it´s hard to get both...

And one other great feature of Waveform´s implementation are chord structures... it comes with tons of great presets from chord structures of famous songs, which is a neat help for writers blockade...

Topcheese
KVRist
203 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Chord Track?

Post Tue May 29, 2018 3:01 pm

In your case, the closest thing you're going to get is Liquid Music by WaveDNA. They have a M4L device you should check out and demo.

The other choices would be to purchase a DAW that has those features. Waveform 9, Cubase Pro, RealBand, Rapid Composer.

zzz00m
KVRAF
1727 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Chord Track?

Post Thu May 31, 2018 12:29 pm

Trancit wrote:In Waveform you choose a scale for the song and the chord track shows you, which ones to use for being "in scale"

Second, Waveform has a very neat pattern creation feature, which is great for trying out different rythmic or harmonic structures...
Waveform as well lets you change globally for a selected clip chord inversion, octave etc...as well as using "newer" chords like open chords (Third one octave up) root note doubled one octave below/one octave up... everything you need in modern dance music... in S1 you have to do this all manually

For me, S1 wins in only one point: It works with "normal" midi clips, no matter how you have changed it manually...
In Waveform, if you changed the from Waveform created pattern, it gets excluded from the chord track follow... until you save your changed midi as a pattern preset and load this into the clip...
That´s a bit cumbersome... there is S1´s solution more user friendly and flexible... but I think it´s hard to get both...

And one other great feature of Waveform´s implementation are chord structures... it comes with tons of great presets from chord structures of famous songs, which is a neat help for writers blockade...
I have Waveform 9 and like the MIDI pattern generator and chord track. But I think you have pointed out the biggest drawback with the chord track in W9, regarding exclusion of "normal" MIDI clips from chord track follow.

I think that is probably because Tracktion has not yet implemented a chord detection algorithm that can detect chord structures beyond what the pattern generators have created. I would really like to see that enhanced, because you still do not have full control of the complete song/edit from the perspective of the chord track, as in Studio One 4. I think what Tracktion has done so far finally completes the pattern generator, as that seemed unfinished in Waveform 8 without the chord track.
Windows 10; with instruments from Ableton, AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, PreSonus, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

zzz00m
KVRAF
1727 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Chord Track?

Post Thu May 31, 2018 12:43 pm

Topcheese wrote:In your case, the closest thing you're going to get is Liquid Music by WaveDNA. They have a M4L device you should check out and demo.

The other choices would be to purchase a DAW that has those features. Waveform 9, Cubase Pro, RealBand, Rapid Composer.
I was looking at Cubase for the chord track (is also available in Cubase Elements), but I will probably just upgrade to Studio One 4 for that.

I have Liquid Notes by Re-Compose, but that workflow seems more suited to working with a multi track MIDI song after you have completed prototyping a rough arrangement, and want to tweak the harmonic content and re-harmonize, etc. But it's probably not as well suited for writing a song in the DAW, since it is a separate standalone app that you connect to your DAW via virtual MIDI cables (LoopBe30).

I also have Liquid Rhythm by WaveDNA, but without their Max for Live integration. I have not tried their Liquid Music app yet. From what I have read, I think I would prefer the MIDI pattern generators in Tracktion Waveform, which I do have.

I tried a demo of Rapid Composer a while back, and while that has a steep learning curve, there are some die-hard fans.

I still think that building a chord track into the DAW workflow may be the most effective way to get global control of harmonic content within the project, vs. relying on plugins, or standalone applications.

I think Tracktion Waveform has some really unique creative tools in its MIDI pattern generators, but it is still short of a full solution with the current chord track feature.
Last edited by zzz00m on Thu May 31, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 10; with instruments from Ableton, AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, PreSonus, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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