You sound more like an Ableton advocate then a dedicated Bitwig user.Reefius wrote:I can use my hardware synths and multitimbral VST's (like Kontakt) perfectly fine in Ableton Live, don't even need Max4Live for it.pdxindy wrote:And Ableton Live still doesn't have it on version 10...Reefius wrote:Announcing MIDI channel implementation in v2.4 like they just invented the wheel is just hilarious. Such basic functionality should've been implemented in v1.0 back in 2014. It only took them 4 years to implement MIDI channels. Cubase already had this in v1.0 on the Atari ST back in the early 90's
Bitwig 2.4 announced
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- Banned
- 8 posts since 10 Jul, 2018
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- KVRAF
- 25391 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Ableton Live still does not record midi channel data... on version 10... and now Bitwig doesReefius wrote:I can use my hardware synths and multitimbral VST's (like Kontakt) perfectly fine in Ableton Live, don't even need Max4Live for it.pdxindy wrote:And Ableton Live still doesn't have it on version 10...Reefius wrote:Announcing MIDI channel implementation in v2.4 like they just invented the wheel is just hilarious. Such basic functionality should've been implemented in v1.0 back in 2014. It only took them 4 years to implement MIDI channels. Cubase already had this in v1.0 on the Atari ST back in the early 90's
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- KVRist
- 186 posts since 1 Jul, 2008
Exactly. That’s what I just didpdxindy wrote:In fact, it is just the opposite... there is reason to release them sooner because the sooner it is released, the sooner those people whose upgrade plan has become inactive might purchase their next upgrade.
Absolutely love what they’re doing and the progress they are making. I’m happy to support it
And I find the hate so fascinating.
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- KVRAF
- 4490 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest
the native MIDI channel support
alone opens up insane possibilities, hope all the note based modulator like the side chain one etc. also gonna support it using the new NoteFX layer
BWS team ... well played
alone opens up insane possibilities, hope all the note based modulator like the side chain one etc. also gonna support it using the new NoteFX layer
BWS team ... well played
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat
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- KVRAF
- 11151 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
I wonder what version Live will introduce some realy basic and nessesery functions like in clip editing and MPE...oh, and they realy need to update their lame sampler, it doesn’t even do granularReefius wrote:Looks like they just added functionality that should've been there since v2.0. Totally not worth another $169 or even $129 with the current summer sale.
What I predicted seems to come true, they were holding back some basic functionality to add it after everyone's first year of free updates expired. Nice try but I'm not falling for it.
No one is asking for 129 bucks for the 2.4 update, you will get three or four updates like this for 129....but of course you can wait until they have built up in to a massive update, then get it for 129 and get every update for the next year free. It’s update when you want, constant updates, constant innovation....love Bitwig.
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
I think you should be finally able to do this with the new MIDI effects? Just assign the MIDI notes from Drum Machine to different MIDI channels and then map them to single VST? At least I think it should work.teilo wrote:mholloway wrote:teilo wrote:The Drum Machine is too locked into a sample-based workflow. They need to take a page out of Ableton's book and allow you to re-route pads to separate notes targeting a single instrument. There is no way to use a drum VST, and a drum editing workflow, with the Drum Machine, without creating a separate instrument for every single pad and thus wasting gobs of memory.
There is no way to edit a drum MIDI clip targeting a single instrument, with hit names rather than note names. You can't even so much as name a pad unless you do so by renaming the instrument the pad targets. You cannot change the note the pad sends. It's locked.
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Going by the same logic, I could say that Live 10 also was a scam because multi-clip editing, proper support for high-DPI screens and touchpad gestures, MIDI chase, Capture and few other "new" "big" features were "held back" because other DAWs have had them for years.Reefius wrote:Looks like they just added functionality that should've been there since v2.0. Totally not worth another $169 or even $129 with the current summer sale. What I predicted seems to come true, they were holding back some basic functionality to add it after everyone's first year of free updates expired. Nice try but I'm not falling for it.
Don't be ridiculous! Count the number of things introduced between 2.0 and 2.4 and tell me how much more can be expected from a 10 persons company with 4 coders?! And if it costs $129 per year, I'm more than happy to pay the price! Live is still behind Bitwig in so many areas it's not even funny anymore and the things it has going for it - well, maybe except for Push - will be addressed and surpassed in Bitwig in a year or two, while Live continues to focus on people with cool beards & hairdos making "beats" in sparsely-furnitured industrial lofts...
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- KVRAF
- 6305 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin
Yeah, this whole tinfoil and "this should have been in 1.0" thing doesn't get you anywhere but deeper into paranoia.
Sure, full Midi Channel support "should" have been there from day 1, but for the typical ITB producer it was thought not to be such a big deal - and as was said, Live doesn't have it even in V10. I actually had this discussion with the devs before the release of 1.0 during beta and this was how my scripts came about as a temporary workaround - never thought it would be needed for so long.
How it's implemented now is pretty much exactly how I'd done it. And you even have it in the instrument layer device, so you can have 5 instruments layered by midi channel with ease on one track and still be able to edit the individual notes in a meaningful manner. Very very slick IMO.
There may be companies out there who scheme around with their features and updates to make a buck, but seeing this as how the world works is a bit too simple. Not everything and everybody is "trumpified".
Some features just need a lot of work or need the basis of the code to be changed - I would guess going to GPU for the GUI (and handling all the different APIs like OpenGL, Metal, whatnot) will be such a one.
Updates for the sampler were asked for a LOT. If that isn't what you need, just keep your old version until something catches your fancy. That is how I always did it with for instance Adobe Photoshop before they came up with that CC crap system. Which is also why Bitwig is not a (bad) subscription, you still are able to open all your existing projects without paying for as long as you want.
I personally found Live 10 an update I would not have cared for one bit if I would still use/own it. The difference is, that it came out 5 years after v9. I highly prefer the Bitwig way with constant meaningful updates.
That your pet feature is missing can happen no matter what the update plan. Live does not have VST3, no Midi Channel recording/editing, only does 64 Bit and is missing a lot of other things I take for granted with BWS.
In the end: Love it or leave it
Cheers,
Tom
Sure, full Midi Channel support "should" have been there from day 1, but for the typical ITB producer it was thought not to be such a big deal - and as was said, Live doesn't have it even in V10. I actually had this discussion with the devs before the release of 1.0 during beta and this was how my scripts came about as a temporary workaround - never thought it would be needed for so long.
How it's implemented now is pretty much exactly how I'd done it. And you even have it in the instrument layer device, so you can have 5 instruments layered by midi channel with ease on one track and still be able to edit the individual notes in a meaningful manner. Very very slick IMO.
There may be companies out there who scheme around with their features and updates to make a buck, but seeing this as how the world works is a bit too simple. Not everything and everybody is "trumpified".
Some features just need a lot of work or need the basis of the code to be changed - I would guess going to GPU for the GUI (and handling all the different APIs like OpenGL, Metal, whatnot) will be such a one.
Updates for the sampler were asked for a LOT. If that isn't what you need, just keep your old version until something catches your fancy. That is how I always did it with for instance Adobe Photoshop before they came up with that CC crap system. Which is also why Bitwig is not a (bad) subscription, you still are able to open all your existing projects without paying for as long as you want.
I personally found Live 10 an update I would not have cared for one bit if I would still use/own it. The difference is, that it came out 5 years after v9. I highly prefer the Bitwig way with constant meaningful updates.
That your pet feature is missing can happen no matter what the update plan. Live does not have VST3, no Midi Channel recording/editing, only does 64 Bit and is missing a lot of other things I take for granted with BWS.
In the end: Love it or leave it
Cheers,
Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
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- KVRian
- 925 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
Seems you are trying to imply Live users had to wait 5 years for updates? (*)
That's is not true.
Live 9 had multiple 9.x updates in those 5 years before Live 10 (and after, it is still being updated), just like Bitwig 2.4 is a 2.x update, not Bitwig 3.
Also, due to Max For Live, users don't even need to wait for .x updates, they can take matters in their own hands and make their own updates, which the huge Live community has being doing for years, most needs have a M4L device that solves it (like "granular samplers").
Now that Max For Live works just like a VST in Live 10 (better for some things, like MIDI) the complaints about Ableton shifting functionality to M4L have lowered considerably, pretty much all Live 10 Suite owners loved the new Creative Essentials pack, which is all M4L devices (of course, another example of how Live users don't need to wait years for cool new stuff).
(*) And prefaced it with "there may be companies out there who scheme around with their features and updates to make a buck". If that's about Live, a single one-time update cost at %60 of the full price, for 5 years of updates, would be considered fair by many people. %50 seems a common number for major updates in softare, and many offer less.
That's is not true.
Live 9 had multiple 9.x updates in those 5 years before Live 10 (and after, it is still being updated), just like Bitwig 2.4 is a 2.x update, not Bitwig 3.
Also, due to Max For Live, users don't even need to wait for .x updates, they can take matters in their own hands and make their own updates, which the huge Live community has being doing for years, most needs have a M4L device that solves it (like "granular samplers").
Now that Max For Live works just like a VST in Live 10 (better for some things, like MIDI) the complaints about Ableton shifting functionality to M4L have lowered considerably, pretty much all Live 10 Suite owners loved the new Creative Essentials pack, which is all M4L devices (of course, another example of how Live users don't need to wait years for cool new stuff).
(*) And prefaced it with "there may be companies out there who scheme around with their features and updates to make a buck". If that's about Live, a single one-time update cost at %60 of the full price, for 5 years of updates, would be considered fair by many people. %50 seems a common number for major updates in softare, and many offer less.
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- KVRAF
- 2300 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
People are taking the bait here.
Reefius is a troll, and an a**hole, plain and simple. Just ignore him. No need to address his every insult and give proper explanations -- he doesn't care. He's not here for reasoned discussion, he's here to troll. Move along.
Reefius is a troll, and an a**hole, plain and simple. Just ignore him. No need to address his every insult and give proper explanations -- he doesn't care. He's not here for reasoned discussion, he's here to troll. Move along.
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- KVRAF
- 25391 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Bitwig has added more core functionality in the last 16 months than Ableton did in those 5 years. Most of Abletons focus during those years was Push integration. That's not bad, but not what I wanted.pottering wrote:Live 9 had multiple 9.x updates in those 5 years before Live 10 (and after, it is still being updated), just like Bitwig 2.4 is a 2.x update, not Bitwig 3.
I got tired of waiting with such a slow development path and moved on. Bitwig's development pace is much faster. When Live 10 was announced, I was glad I had moved on because what mattered most was still not there. If Live is satisfactory for you, great. It's an excellent application. Bitwig however has the functionality I wanted and they keep improving it in ways that are exciting/useful for me.
Bitwig supports MPE - Live doesn't at all. That settles it already for me...
The Bitwig modulation system is a thing of beauty. Live is painful by comparison. I could never go back to how clumsy Live is in that regard. It didn't start that way, but it's also a 'that settles it for me' functionality.
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- KVRian
- 925 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
Anyone can google the name of MPE controllers with "ableton" and see with their own eyes youtube videos of MPE controllers being used with Ableton Live.
Hence, no one needs to trust my word.
Nor yours.
Hence, no one needs to trust my word.
Nor yours.
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- KVRAF
- 25391 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Being used with (via inefficient workaround)... Ableton still has no built-in MPE support...pottering wrote:Anyone can google the name of MPE controllers with "ableton" and see with their own eyes youtube videos of MPE controllers being used with Ableton Live.
Hence, no one needs to trust my word.
Nor yours.
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- KVRian
- 1286 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth
MPE has only been officially accepted by the MIDI Association since the end of january this year.
https://www.midi.org/images/easyblog_ar ... elease.pdf
This means that before that date, anyone could use their own interpretaion of MPE because there was no standard. I believe it was a smart move from Ableton to wait for an official standard.
https://www.midi.org/images/easyblog_ar ... elease.pdf
This means that before that date, anyone could use their own interpretaion of MPE because there was no standard. I believe it was a smart move from Ableton to wait for an official standard.
