How Long Does Other DAWs Take To Save 20,000 Midi Items?

[harryupbabble]

On my offline computer, it takes REAPER 5.91 over 5 and a half hours to batch export 20,000 one-bar midi items from the Project Bay.

My offline computer is run by Windows 7 64-bit and the 4 AMD CPU's speed is 2.4 GHz. It has 8 GB RAM. I'm not sure what the hard drive specs are. I guess "generic" would describe it.

For test purpose, I copied the folder that contains the 20,000 midi files and it took my offline computer just under 8 minutes to do it. So why is REAPER taking 5 and half hours to save the same 20,000 midi items? Is that speed fast or is that slow compared to other DAWs?

I am asking people that have at least 20,000 one-bar midi files, preferably drum patterns, to do the test... to see how long it takes them to save 20,000 midi items out of their DAWs, assuming that their DAW is not REAPER but something else.

If it's too much a bother to perform the test then I understand. I just wish other people elsewhere have already tried a similar test and/or did bench-marking... but Google right now for me is so much slower and has other problems like web pages not loading and is of no great help. But I did used these search words: file save speed daw comparison

I only looked at the results pages and not clicked the articles themselves because I couldn't find the right article title and even if I did find the right article, the loading of articles is currently much slower than the loading of Google results. At the moment, my online computer is very ancient, at least 20 years old, and the Firefox in it doesn't get updates anymore.

Most of the Google results were about tips about "speeding up your computer". I've already applied some of those tips quite a while back. I mean copying a folder containing 20, 000 midi files in under 8 minutes is pretty fast, right?

The results from such a test would/could be valuable not only to me but others as well. And if such test result data already exist somewhere in the world wide web and if anybody here is aware of its location(s) then can anybody please provide link(s) to it/them? Thanks very much in advance.

[ShawnG]

You have mentioned this a bunch of times and on different forums, and I have yet to have any understanding of what you are on about. What exactly are you doing routinely with 20000 midi files that is even remotely musically useful?

[Acid Mitch]

That’s a lot of drums. It would take 10 hours 25 minutes just to listen to them at 130 bpm.
And then you need to decide which ones to use.

[Acid Mitch]

.

For test purpose, I copied the folder that contains the 20,000 midi files and it took my offline computer just under 8 minutes to do it. So why is REAPER taking 5 and half hours to save the same 20,000 midi items? Is that speed fast or is that slow compared to other DAWs?


, .

Are you asking why Windows can copy the folder containing your files to a different location faster than Reaper can create the files in the first place ?

[thecontrolcentre]

[harryupbabble]

You have mentioned this a bunch of times and on different forums, and I have yet to have any understanding of what you are on about. What exactly are you doing routinely with 20000 midi files that is even remotely musically useful?

Just here and at the REAPER forum.

To answer your question, it's because in my case I think having 20,000 drum patterns to choose from is superior to having 20 drum patterns to choose from. And having 20 drum patterns to choose from is superior to having only 2 drum patterns to choose from. Minimalists might disagree.

I guess it's like having 20,000 colurs to work with if one is a painter.

[harryupbabble]

That’s a lot of drums. It would take 10 hours 25 minutes just to listen to them at 130 bpm.
And then you need to decide which ones to use.

I may never audition nor use 90 percent of them.

The choosing is easy. I put 20,000 numbers in a virtual bag and randomly shuffle them with a software. The software will give a result like this:

12345
54321
2
95
1999
and so on


I start at the top, I find the midi file that corresponds to the number. I audition them sequentially down the list, I find one I like, I drag and drop that one into REAPER and see how good it sounds with the bass line.

That's not the hard part. The hard to accept part is that REAPER is tying up my computer for over 5.5 hours whenever I make edits on the 20,000 midi items and have to batch export them.

[harryupbabble]

Are you asking why Windows can copy the folder containing your files to a different location faster than Reaper can create the files in the first place ?

Yes that's what I'm asking, partly. But my primary question is how do other DAWs compare to REAPER when it comes to saving 20,000 midi items, speed-wise.

Be back later ladies and gents, my offline computer is now not tied up. Okay bye.

[jancivil]

I am asking people that have at least 20,000 one-bar midi files, preferably drum patterns, to do the test...

LMAO, and I am so not exaggerating. You may be unique here.

[harryupbabble]

Damn it. I don't like to edit my posts but I did change 20,0000 to 20,000.

It's the speed scrabbler in me. Always trying to beat the time. I thought I could make the edit before someone else posted after me and it would not show up as an edited post.

I would have made it too if this computer wasn't so slow, hahaha. Still, I don't think I have ever ever edited any post of mine where it says at the bottom "edited 2 times".

Well, whatever, I'm outta here. Yo, for real, you.

[ShawnG]

I guess it's like having 20,000 colours to work with if one is a painter.

That's exactly the thing, though. a painter wouldn't need 20,000 colors, because they know how to make every color they need from the 8-12 colors they have in their palette. So it is with musicians and instruments.

I start at the top, I find the midi file that corresponds to the number. I audition them sequentially down the list, I find one I like, I drag and drop that one into REAPER and see how good it sounds with the bass line.

That's not the hard part. The hard to accept part is that REAPER is tying up my computer for over 5.5 hours whenever I make edits on the 20,000 midi items and have to batch export them.

lol, that is definitely not the hard to accept part from where I am standing.

To take your question at face value, I might be wrong, but I'm not sure that any other DAW has the batch export options that Reaper does, so not sure anybody else could replicate your experiment. also, as Jancivil states, your method of working is most likely completely unique, to be as charitable as I can be. I can't imagine that the results you are getting from this method are worth even a fraction of the effort that it would require. In the same way that I very often find that programming a synth patch takes far less time than finding an appropriate preset, you may find that working on programming your own beats, or working with drum sequencer randomizers are way more efficient?

have you tried looking into it on the OS end? I can imagine that there might be some sort of script out there that might be able to pull random files out of a folder using windows explorer, windows obviously has to catalog all files at all times, so indexing from that end would be way faster than recreating the midifiles with a new identifier.

[harryupbabble]

@ShawnG

I don't think my working method is unique at all. I've seen tons of videos of people working with FL studio. They have all sorts of folders. One folder is full of bass patterns, another folder is full of drum patterns, etc. All the folders are accessible via FL Studio browser and draggable/droppable into FL Studio. I'm not sure exactly how many items they have in their folders, just that it's a lot of items... but it's the same idea as mine or vice versa. Okay, so my folders may contain thousands more than what they have but really my working method is not unique.

I like generating thousands of files instead of using a drum generator VST plugin inside REAPER because I am pretty sure that drum generator VSTs generate duplicate patterns. But if I have the drums patterns inside a folder, I can use a software that searches for duplicates and delete them. My duplicate finder software have already deleted many many many duplicates. Also my tools tend to be made for Windows XP and are freeware. I'm not sure if there is even a freeware midi drum pattern generator VST plugin.

It's the same with bass patterns... duplicates are generated and must be deleted.

I've tried other methods of making music. I've tried the "noodle at the piano" method (or in my case midi controller instead of piano). I quit that method because I don't like to be boxed in by muscle memory. I like to have access to all the combinations that muscle memory might miss.

For example, play only quarter notes on the piano and play only one bar's worth in 4/4. And use only the notes C, E, G. The total combinations possible under those restrictions is 81.
That may not seem a lot but if you replace the 4 quarter notes with 8 eight notes then the total combinations becomes 6,561. Muscle memory won't cover all those combinations.

I have no idea what Windows 7 is doing behind the scene in terms of copying 20,000 midi items and I also have no idea what REAPER is doing behind the scene in terms of midi batch exporting. I'm not that computer literate. And yes I've already mentioned this whole thing at the REAPER General Discussion forum and it seems no scriptwriters are interested in tackling the problem. I'm just a simple wannabe songwriter that want to use technology to speed things up. I'm not a diehard techy. I'm just hoping that the REAPER developers have seen my posts about this file saving speed problem. I guess I will have to actually submit something at REAPER's Feature Request forum in case the devs have not seen my posts at the General Discussion forum.

But if what you say is true that other DAWs may not even have the batch midi export capability that REAPER has then I guess REAPER is superior in that respect. If that's the case then I will just put up with the 5.5 hours wait when batch exporting 20,000 midi items till maybe someday the REAPER devs addresses the problem, if it is even addressable.

Anyways, thanks very much for the input and suggestions. But I guess I'll call it a night, in terms of posting. Okay bye.

[jabe]

I'm sure other DAW users have several folders full of assorted patterns, but I'd be surprised if many loaded anything like 20,000 or even 2,000 into a single project and then changed them.

But I was wrong once before, back in 1973.

[ShawnG]

I don't think my working method is unique at all. I've seen tons of videos of people working with FL studio. They have all sorts of folders. One folder is full of bass patterns, another folder is full of drum patterns, etc. All the folders are accessible via FL Studio browser and draggable/droppable into FL Studio. I'm not sure exactly how many items they have in their folders, just that it's a lot of items... but it's the same idea as mine or vice versa. Okay, so my folders may contain thousands more than what they have but really my working method is not unique.

I have those folders. It is possible that over 20 years of doing this shizzle I probably have more midi files than your 20,000. I have them loosely sorted into folders based on genre, bpm, etc... and I select from there. What I (and I'm pretty sure everybody else) don't do is have a program select them completely at random and then drag them into my sequencer in the off chance that it works with the bassline, which I'm inferring is also randomly generated? I also would never put up with any workflow that would have me sit and watch a computer program batch assign an identifier number for five and a half hours every time you add to the heap. Now , I am sure others have attempted to approach music as a mathematical exercise, but those have been definitely exceptions rather than the rule.

But, you know, whatever makes you happy, and all that.

[whyterabbyt]

I may never audition nor use 90 percent of them..
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.
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The hard to accept part is that REAPER is tying up my computer for over 5.5 hours whenever I make edits on the 20,000 midi items and have to batch export them.

what sort of dumbass makes 18,000 edits to MIDI items he'll never use, then complains about how long it takes to save them.

PEBKAC.