My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
8440 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:54 am

Sascha Franck wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:12 am
Yet, as always, you need to put everything into perspective, and when it comes to Apple, you need to be aware of how they treat customers.
I have a very interesting story to tell myself. I have an iMac from 2013 (a customized i7 2.5 GHz). Suddenly a little over the 2 year warranty, the thing simply failed. I could hear the fans, but no boot, no image on screen.

Went to the Apple Service, and the diagnostic was that the logical board failed (it's always "the logical board", which means basically, the entire computer).

I paid for a replacement. It costed me 750 euros. About an year later, the fans started to fire, and I found myself suddenly like I was flying a jet plane. Went to the net, and found an utilitarian that controlled the fans. Installed it, and the fans slowed down to the regular speed. Termal sensors were displaying everything normal.

Problem was that I was finding that the behavior of my Mac was sub-pair, and nothing comparable to what it was before failure. Since there are basically nothing that allow us to check the hardware in macOS, and since I also had Windows installed (I always make my Macs dual boot), I fired up Windows, and installed Hardware Monitor (https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html). Much to my surprise, the readings were that the CPU was running at 1.6 GHz, instead of 2.5 GHz as it should and was supposed to be.

Went back to Apple Service, and the diagnose was that there was a sensor in the "Logical Board" (that damned thing) that was malfunctioning, and reporting to the OS that the CPU was overheating, and that was causing the OS to slow down the CPU. This is in a "logical board" that was already a replacement of a failed one. In little more than four years, two faulty "logical boards".

When I asked to replace that sensor, the answer was... that I had to replace the entire Logcial Board (again). Another handful of hundreds of euros, because of a faulty piece I got from Apple in the first place.

Since it was already more than two years since the repair, Apple declined any responsibility (when it was obvious that the faulty component was their responsibility. Yes, I should have fired a complaint immediately upon the first symptoms, but it happened that fans firing at full speed is a common issue in iMacs (for example, when we replace the hard drive for a new, non-Apple HD). It didn't cross my mind that this could cause a slow down of the CPU. Anyway, the answer I got from was that "it was already a very old machine (it was, back then, not yet five years old), that was out of guarantee, and I should buy a new one". WTF???

I bought another iMac (second-hand), and gave the old one to my youngest daughter. It will work at sub-speed up to the end of its life, due to a stupid sensor that Apple doesn't even replace on its own.

I am a Mac user since the time of Mac SE30 (my first computer). This means like about 28 years of Macintosh (the SE30 was launched in 1989, and I think I got mine in 1990). However, because of Apple policy, I am becoming more and more a Windows user, and I am very happy with my (custom built) PC system.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8738 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:20 am

Did the OP follow the initial advice to deactivate hibernation and did it fix the issue?

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4913 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 am

dupont wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:40 am
This is not off topic this is a tread PC vs mac.
Oh so this is yet another endless Mac vs PC thread? Okay. I’ll contribute my issues with both:

I know all the above posted issues with Apple. They’re legit annoying issues and unethical business practices. The Apple that won me over stopped existing some time in 2013. Apple is getting worse. I won’t buy another laptop from them for heavy CPU/GPU workloads unless they demonstrate a MAJOR turnaround in hardware reliability and robustness. The cases were wonderfully designed for a few years (unibody), but the machines are suicidal when run heavily. They either die of heat fatigue or manufacturing defects, and they do a lot of throttling to deal with heat. This is especially the case now with Apple’s ridiculous obsession with thinness.

Who knows where it’s ultimately going to go. I’ve been waiting for a new “prosumer” desktop from them for over seven years. There’s supposed to be one in the works now that fixes the mistakes of the “beautiful 2013 trashcan” (which I would’ve bought if they’d sold it with a Retina display that never came along).

The thing is, Apple is STILL less bad to me than the alternatives. Windows and PCs never reached the comfort, consistency, and maturity I found on the Mac side. Not once in the decades I’ve used them have I felt like the PC market ever matured to serve NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS. I was a techie who rebelled against the culture of techies. I hate tech bullshit.

I came into computers through the PC experience as a pre-teen. I used DOS and then Windows. Decades later, I learned about how much further ahead Amiga, Apple, and even Atari had been compared to the PC platform, in terms of graphics and sound... but by then, the PC platform had finally caught up in specs. The PC development legacy was, and is still, an issue, though. Drive letters. Registry. BIOS. WT actual F?

I toyed with Linux (hated it), loved BeOS (pointless fandom I had to give up on, thanks to Microsoft’s market abuse) and, as I continued being a tech and building PCs for myself and others, I grew more and more intolerant with the PC hardware world’s sheer voodoo factor. Eventually I could stand no more. I abandoned the platform and have been far more productive on Macs ever since.

It sucks to see Apple being dicks about forced obsolescence (and refusing to fix effing bugs). The computer industry in the PC world has been a shining example of unethical and abusive behavior. Apple of 2007-2013 kicked the ass of that lazyass industry and forced a lot of changes in design due to the competition they presented. Now Apple is once again becoming just like the bastard PC industry and there’s no Steve Jobs going to come rescue them from themselves a second time. But the parts that were better are still better. The inherent issues with the PC platform are still there and keep me far away.

• The parts/building & configuration voodoo (and the general inconsistency of hardware/software behaviors, both intended and not)...

• The constant passing of the buck in support scenarios... who’s at fault? PC seller? Microsoft? The maker of one component? A software developer?

• Who’s driver do you install?? The hardware maker’s version or the outdated and buggy version “supported” by the machine seller???

• Who’s responsible for repair/replacement of a defective or incompatible component in a self-build (the seller, OEM, no one??) ... Why does Windows do [insert countless inconsistent behaviors and bugs here]?

• The toxic geek-masculinity culture in the PC builder community (user blaming/bashing; “problem exists between chair and keyboard”)

• So much more... [insert incoherent rage here]

Apple’s bug prevalence is worsening. Ever since iOS 7, iOS has been buggy and ugly. It’s not quite up to the level of my experiences with Windows-generates rage, though (the worst part is text; typing, selection, cursor movement, and editing of text in Safari on websites is ABYSMAL).

iOS pisses me off (mostly when I use Safari), but Mac OS doesn’t bother me much at all. Mac OS is paradise, compared to any time I have to deal with windows anymore. The OS is pretty damned consistent and reliable. Even with the problems, for now, the PC and Linux/Droid platforms are MUCH worse for my sanity than the Mac and iOS platforms.

I’ll never build a PC again, and no prebuilt machines seem to be quiet AND well-built. The laptops are abysmally built, obnoxiously populated with software (and questionable-to-abysmal drivers), and I’ve yet to see a single PC laptop with a well-made trackpad that has solid drivers.

The custom PC-builder person must be their own support (I’m sick to death of being my own technician because of the countless bad design choices that cause countless bizarre system behaviors), and customization of prebuilt machines is lacking; the parts selection is usually low quality. It’s always some kind of tradeoff if you buy from an OEM.

Overall, I despise Windows with every molecule in my body. Almost every design choice and behavior makes me want to punch, stomp, crush, and smash Windows into a dead bloody pulp. It has barely improved since Windows XP’s mixed-metaphor “friendly” skin was added (I skipped Win ME and Win 7, but used every other version). For Windows and Microsoft, I hold within me the hate-energy equivalent of a hundred thousand exploding stars, and no amount of profanity expresses the feeling adequately enough.

Putting Mac OS on a PC is not a solution for me either (I want LESS techie effort, not MORE).

I could go on and on and on... but I must stop at some point. So there we are: My Mac vs PC thread contribution.
Last edited by Jace-BeOS on Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:34 am, edited 5 times in total.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

User avatar
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8738 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:30 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 am
Overall, I despise Windows with every molecule in my body.
Not emotional or irrational then :hihi:

User avatar
JunSev
KVRist
310 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:35 am

I don't want anything from apple, overpriced products and obnoxious politics, but there is always many people who loves just to follow trends without logic...

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4913 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:39 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:30 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 am
Overall, I despise Windows with every molecule in my body.
Not emotional or irrational then :hihi:
It’s the same level of “irrationality” you’d perceive when a stranger lashes out angrily at another person you’ve never met before, when you don’t know that person has abused, injured, and generally brutalized that stranger for decades, away from your view. Their rage is justified and was created through the experience of repeat, legitimate, harms.

Perspective.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4913 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

JunSev wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:35 am
I don't want anything from apple, overpriced products and obnoxious politics, but there is always many people who loves just to follow trends without logic...
I don’t give a shit about trends.

Popularity and success have been the absolute worst things to ever happen to Apple’s product quality.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

User avatar
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8738 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:48 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:39 am
VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:30 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 am
Overall, I despise Windows with every molecule in my body.
Not emotional or irrational then :hihi:
It’s the same level of “irrationality” you’d perceive when a stranger lashes out angrily at another person you’ve never met before, when you don’t know that person has abused, injured, and generally brutalized that stranger for decades, away from your view. Their rage is justified and was created through the experience of repeat, legitimate, harms.

Perspective.
Comparing your Window's experience to years of extreme physical and emoitional abuse.

Not emotional or irrational then

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
8440 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:51 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am
Popularity and success have been the absolute worst things to ever happen to Apple’s product quality.
This I agree and subscribe 100%. Being someone that fought for Apple (in the beginning), and was glad to see the directions token in the first years after Steve Jobs coming back (including and up to OS X 10.2, and their announced focus on music), I started to become pissed after they bought Emagic, and all of a sudden, stopped ALL the development for Windows (including support of perfectly functioning hardware, like drivers for Windows 7).

From then on, it was a consistent way down.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12490 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am
Popularity and success have been the absolute worst things to ever happen to Apple’s product quality.
Every bit this! It was when they became a highly successful mobile gadget company that the quality of their offered hardware went way down. These days it's all about getting low level consumers with plenty of money in their hands as customers, whereas they once sharpened their company profile by selling professional computers (they have always been almost horribly expensive, but at least they were expandable and lasted a looong time - I expect to still use this very mid 2010 Mac Pro I'm typing on right now in 5-10 years to come, perhaps with a little bit of further pimping, which is easily possible).

Your long post was excellent, too (even if I may not agree on some points).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12490 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:32 am

fmr wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:51 am
From then on, it was a consistent way down.
Well, not really, at least not in my book. The event of them switching from PPC to Intel was a great thing to happen. All of a sudden their hardware was a lot more affordable and they could as well compete with modern PCs in terms of performance (PPC Macs were abysmally slow compared to what was just an average Windows desktop back then).
I hated them for the Emagic buyout, but once I got my first Intel Macbook and Logic 7 in 2007, I was pretty much stunned - there's been nothing comparable by far on the Windows market and that little machine (the second 2008 one of them still running fine after the previously described issues) scored out quite some highly optimized desktop machines running Windows when it came to sequencing and low latency performance.
IMO it's been the iBusiness that turned Apple into something else, culminating into the recent event of the iMac "Pro" - the name alone almost being an oxymoron in itself.
As far as truly professional computers go (even ones without maximum performance figures but just machines you can maintain and somewhat keep up to date yourself), the last thing Apple did in that area happened 2012.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

User avatar
Michael L
KVRAF
2502 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:37 am

:hug:
Last edited by Michael L on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

perpetual3
KVRian
511 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:38 am

I was living in the US. I had a 2011 laptop that had a logic board error. At first wanted $400. Then fixed for free. They also replaced the glossy screen with a matte screen upon my request for free. A few months ago, same thing happened, but they would not replace the laptop because it was EOL (over 6 years old, apple doesn’t maintain the parts).

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4913 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:48 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:48 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:39 am
VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:30 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 am
Overall, I despise Windows with every molecule in my body.
Not emotional or irrational then :hihi:
It’s the same level of “irrationality” you’d perceive when a stranger lashes out angrily at another person you’ve never met before, when you don’t know that person has abused, injured, and generally brutalized that stranger for decades, away from your view. Their rage is justified and was created through the experience of repeat, legitimate, harms.

Perspective.
Comparing your Window's experience to years of extreme physical and emoitional abuse.

Not emotional or irrational then
It’s an analogy and it is relevant. My Windows/PC experience is effectively a long-term emotional abuse scenario (gaslighting is the most comparable type of emotional abuse).

I’ve had a “relationship” with technology, through my employment and my personal life, since at least my teens. I had no choice but to deal with the problems (especially in my work life, where it very directly related to my ability to earn an income to live on) and, for a while, didn’t know there was an alternative tool to compare against (just like a person being gaslit by an abusive person isn’t aware that there’s anything wrong going on, so they stay there, putting the stress on themselves instead of getting away from it). The Mac hating of my IT peers, the dominance of Microsoft’s abusive licensing / marketing, and the shitty attitude of mindless Apple fanatics all kept me isolated from that alternative tool. It became more apparent just how bad things were when my livelihood shifted from supporting users to BEING a user.

Also, I’ve experienced extensive abuse of the more conventional definition (people being physically and emotionally abusive). Several examples of which were in my IT workplaces, where my stress levels were already high enough due to abusive, gaslighting bosses, and I didn’t need my tools ALSO being horrible on top of everything else.

As a person who has experienced said abuse, and who feels the similarity in the resulting emotions/behavioral adaptations (such as the emotional importance for me of this subject, for example, or the original poster’s choice of thread title), I find the abuse/behavioral analogy effective in explaining what you characterize as my irrational hate of Windows. If you want to purposely miss the point just to continue making ad hominem commentary, so be it.

If you think no one ought feel so emotionally harmed by technology, well then I absolutely agree:

I spent most of my employed life trying to reduce the frustration and stress levels of my IT-job clients. These are human beings who, as part of their already stressful jobs, lost important time and data to bad computer/software designs. The workplace is a core, and largely unavoidable, component of the human experience. These are real people with real emotions. There are extreme levels of stress and workplace misery generated by bad technology, and all the while the blame is put on the users (sometimes correctly, but more often wrongly, because the tool is so over-complicated, unreliable, and unintuitive). Users are even taught to (bullied into) put the blame on themselves by the user-bashing tech culture.

This is real-world misery, being placed on real people, who have no choice but to deal with it because the choices are largely nonexistent. The emotions of computer-issue-generated stress are not something everyone can casually turn off as if they’re irrelevant or inconsequential inconveniences. These are people’s jobs and livelihoods being made worse by shitty tools.

The level of normalization of bad shit that has gone on with computers is appalling. Most tech people don’t see it because they’re too acculturated to it, they depend on it for their livelihoods, and they spread that acculturation to everyone they influence. If you can blow off every annoyance generated by bad computer behavior, then you probably aren’t relying on the proper working state of a computer as a tool for your survival... or your livelihood is in being part of the tech support industry, and you directly benefit from bad technology demanding constant support.

As an aside, my best tech support-type jobs were where I was a trainer, not a technician. Teaching people how to deal with technology, rather than spending all day apologizing for problems that no technician can fix (because we don’t own the code or build the components, and none of the decisions on what tools to buy are ours to make in most corporate IT departments), was by far a more rewarding experience. The amount of gratitude I received from clients, after I let them know that the tools weren’t well designed (especially for non-techies), and after I showed them how to unload the responsibility from their shoulders onto the tool itself, was far greater than any gratitude ever expressed in a basic support job.

A good craftsperson doesn’t blame their tools... unless the tool is a badly made piece of shit. In that case, they replace the tool with a better tool. If there isn’t one, the craftsman gets more and more filled with impotent rage.

It might not look rational from your perspective, but it is human.
Last edited by Jace-BeOS on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
27892 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:51 am

and this tangent does not belong in this thread
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”