Reason 11 announced!!!

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Atlatnesiti
KVRist
103 posts since 3 Apr, 2018

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:20 pm

David wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:02 am
Logic users!
Some great tips on stuff you can do with the Reason Rack inside Logic:
https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... 1cc258b4d0
:tu: Cool

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bmanic
KVRAF
8546 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 pm

EnochLight wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:38 pm
If the top feature request was "high DPI graphics and/or GPU acceleration", one can surmise that we would have seen it far sooner.
You can surmise whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact people have been asking for larger graphics in Reason since virtually the first iteration of the program.
Last edited by bmanic on Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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bmanic
KVRAF
8546 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:00 pm

Liero wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:42 pm
The problem with Propellerhead/Reason is that about 10 years ago they stopped innovating, and now they're slowly starting to add things users wished for and it's just way, way too late because the competition has blown past them. Bitwig in particular has crushed them with regard to the "modulate anything" CV cable features - it's just on a completely different level. MIDI editing has been superior in just about every other major DAW for a long time. Audio handling as well.

Also, anyone saying that upscaling their GUI is a huge effort is being mislead. They had ample opportunity years ago to make high res versions of their plugin interfaces, which for a professional graphic designer would be no more than a month's work - they just didn't think it mattered. Then they completely lost the ball in not reworking the GUI entirely before introducing RE's, and are now paying for it.

I used to love Reason, version 2.5 was a staple for me back in the day. Somewhere along the way they just lost focus. I switched during the Reason/Record debacle.
This.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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bmanic
KVRAF
8546 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:44 am
antic604 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:30 am
Yes. V6 finally made it acceptable in terms of GUI, but MIDI editing is atrocious, so I'll be back when it's reworked.
MIDI editing is pretty great, have a tweak of mouse modifiers (default setup for MIDI editing is not smooth at all) and it becomes a ton better. Can even get very close to FL Studio style (single click note entry, right click note removes it, same for CCs, etc.)

And using juliansader's MIDI editing scripts things are way better and more flexible editing-wise than in any other DAW, actually.
MIDI editing in Reaper is definitely NOT great, and it has nothing to do with mouse modifiers or modes. The problems go much deeper than that..

Reaper has real issues with basic things such as "mouse areas", where the mouse cursor changes from one mode to another.. when you can "grab" a note and transpose it, lengthen it or whatever. This is way less intuitive and harder to use than it should be. For instance in FL Studio I can very easily select exactly what note I want even in a dense cluster of notes and change just the one I want in whatever way I want it. Not sure how they do it but the mouse modifier/cursor changeovers are just done way better. Same for Logic and Cubase. Reaper is by far the worst when it comes to this.. especially when trying to edit controller data.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19478 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:51 am

Editing controller data is exactly where improvements in R6 happened. Way easier than before since you can drag the whole segment instead of trying to target one small strip. Very easy, very fast.
bmanic wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 pm
For instance in FL Studio I can very easily select exactly what note I want even in a dense cluster of notes and change just the one I want in whatever way I want it.
I have no problems doing this in Reaper either.

Trancit
KVRAF
2617 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:03 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:51 am
bmanic wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 pm
For instance in FL Studio I can very easily select exactly what note I want even in a dense cluster of notes and change just the one I want in whatever way I want it.
I have no problems doing this in Reaper either.
Nevertheless is a quite weak point in Reaper with all customizations that it lacks mostly any visual feedback...
Especially with mouse modifiers and usage of scripts or other actions it´s a completely blind flight as the cursor stays always the same and you really have to memorize everything...
This is something other DAWs make a whole lot easier to work with as the mouse cursor reflects what you are able to do atm...

It would be a great help if there would be a user defineable way to add different mouse cursors to the modifiers... i.e. I got the action "Item: Split item under mouse cursor" defined for ALT+ left click for media items and I really want to have the cursor turning into a scissor if I hover over an item and hold the ALT key like all other DAWs got...

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EnochLight
KVRAF
1605 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:15 am

bmanic wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 pm
EnochLight wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:38 pm
If the top feature request was "high DPI graphics and/or GPU acceleration", one can surmise that we would have seen it far sooner.
You can surmise whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact people have been asking for larger graphics in Reason since virtually the first iteration of the program.
As a dinosaur that has been using Reason since the first iteration of the program, I can say with confidence that you’re categorically wrong.
Win 10 | Reason 11 | Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland System 1 | Roland MX-1

Psuper
KVRist
401 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:56 am

EnochLight wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:15 am
bmanic wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 pm
EnochLight wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:38 pm
If the top feature request was "high DPI graphics and/or GPU acceleration", one can surmise that we would have seen it far sooner.
You can surmise whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact people have been asking for larger graphics in Reason since virtually the first iteration of the program.
As a dinosaur that has been using Reason since the first iteration of the program, I can say with confidence that you’re categorically wrong.
2nd dinosaur seconding this, absolute fact. Reason was always 'slightly too big' (bet you didn't even have a pc when common was 800x600, looked like a behemoth then) and people played musical chairs with the 3 windows all the way up until 1440p came out at which point it was about a perfect size for one screen -- prior that we needed 2 monitors if you really wanted to get the most out of it.

As of now, Reason DAW looks and feels great at 4k (if you have the right equipment, which most don't which is why they are bitching with their 27" 4k laptop screens). The Reason Rack should scale or at the least be able to 'widen' like their DAW, but its not holding me back.. much.
Cubase has won the Prize! And Reason Rack is is invited to the party again! :party:
...I now need nothing but more hours in a day.

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EnochLight
KVRAF
1605 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:21 am

Psuper wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:56 am
Reason was always 'slightly too big' (bet you didn't even have a pc when common was 800x600, looked like a behemoth then) and people played musical chairs with the 3 windows all the way up until 1440p came out at which point it was about a perfect size for one screen -- prior that we needed 2 monitors if you really wanted to get the most out of it.
^^ THIS ^^

Back in the early days, Reason on 800x600 displays (and later 1140p) was the reason I decided to go with dual monitors in the first place so many years ago. The rack was comically large on those old displays.
Win 10 | Reason 11 | Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland System 1 | Roland MX-1

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:23 am

Reasons to complain about Reason's graphics.

1. Your monitor is too small.
2. Your working on a laptop with a tiny screen.
3. You need glasses.
4. Don't have patience to wait for updated graphics.
5. Bought a 4k monitor for the wrong Reason.
6. Trying to impress friends with new Photoshopped Combinator skin.
7. Want Reason to look like Fortnite on Epic settings.
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
9790 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:32 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:23 am
Reasons to complain about Reason's graphics.

1. Your monitor is too small.
2. Your working on a laptop with a tiny screen.
3. You need glasses.
4. Don't have patience to wait for updated graphics.
5. Bought a 4k monitor for the wrong Reason.
6. Trying to impress friends with new Photoshopped Combinator skin.
7. Want Reason to look like Fortnite on Epic settings.
8. Image

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antic604
KVRAF
3983 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:33 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:23 am
Reasons to complain about Reason's graphics.

1. Your monitor is too small.
2. Your working on a laptop with a tiny screen.
3. You need glasses.
4. Don't have patience to wait for updated graphics.
5. Bought a 4k monitor for the wrong Reason.
None of those situations make users complain about Bitwig (or Live or S1, for that matter), so I guess there's something wrong with Reason after all :)
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:47 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:33 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:23 am
Reasons to complain about Reason's graphics.

1. Your monitor is too small.
2. Your working on a laptop with a tiny screen.
3. You need glasses.
4. Don't have patience to wait for updated graphics.
5. Bought a 4k monitor for the wrong Reason.
None of those situations make users complain about Bitwig (or Live or S1, for that matter), so I guess there's something wrong with Reason after all :)
You do realize that Reason came out nearly 2 decades ago, right?

So that means, it would be a total overhaul of their entire graphics system, right?

So what's the next step? Review reason #4, right?
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

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antic604
KVRAF
3983 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:59 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:47 am
You do realize that Reason came out nearly 2 decades ago, right?

So that means, it would be a total overhaul of their entire graphics system, right?

So what's the next step? Review reason #4, right?
You do realize that as a paying customer I don't have to care about that?

Ableton did that 2 years ago and released v10 in early 2018 that included full support for high-DPI, so that's not unheard of.

Also, when REs were introduced in 2012/2013, one of the requirements for devices submitted by 3rd party developers were high-res assets, 3D vector mesh that would be textured with those assets and underlying operating logic for the device should be resolution-agnostic. The format was actually very forward-looking, but for some reason Props failed to upgrade their own stuff - the DAW and their own devices - to that standard.

So I'd say they deserve all the criticism for ignoring the issue for so long.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:08 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:59 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:47 am
You do realize that Reason came out nearly 2 decades ago, right?

So that means, it would be a total overhaul of their entire graphics system, right?

So what's the next step? Review reason #4, right?
You do realize that as a paying customer I don't have to care about that?

Ableton did that 2 years ago and released v10 in early 2018 that included full support for high-DPI, so that's not unheard of.

Also, when REs were introduced in 2012/2013, one of the requirements for devices submitted by 3rd party developers were high-res assets, 3D vector mesh that would be textured with those assets and underlying operating logic for the device should be resolution-agnostic. The format was actually very forward-looking, but for some reason Props failed to upgrade their own stuff - the DAW and their own devices - to that standard.

So I'd say they deserve all the criticism for ignoring the issue for so long.
There's no issue, other then a small group of users that demand a two decade old piece of software be totally overhauled in a short period of time. Expecting them to sift through and code millions of lines of code, while maintaining and upgrading other system features in a sequence of events according to the roadmap. And of course, while keeping the bulk of their user base happy and satisfied.

There's a small group of people that seem to believe that their GUI and graphic needs outweigh all the improvements they've done and are continuing to do. I believe there is a breakdown in reality and rationality. This small group of people seem to think they own the copyrights on what's on the priority list and in what sequence.

Let's leave it to the experts... (things are done in order according to a roadmap, for a reason)
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

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