I don't know what DAW to try anymore

[chk071]

I think the best course of action is to just find a DAW you can *tolerate* working with and then stick with it until you've learned all the tricks and shortcuts, and found workarounds for the things that frustrate you. Trying to find the Perfect DAW is just a fruitless distraction to avoid committing to making music. No DAW is going to be perfect. They all have little flaws and annoyances. This hasn't stopped others from making great music with then, including people who are much more successful at it than people like you and I are ever going to be.

Yeah... frankly, it strikes me that people put a big focus on those "little flaws and annoyances" nowadays. You know, life for me has always been also coping with small niggles, and things you don't like. As you say, nothing is perfect. But, if every DAW is not usable for you, i think the problem is rather you than the DAW's. So... my recommendation would be: Try to cope with little things that you don't like, and find the best package for you. For me, it's Studio One. Even though i still have a Cubase Artist license. I simply think Studio One makes more things better than it makes worse, compared to Cubase.

Actually, thinking about it, i also have a bit of a history... i started with free DAW's (Podium, LMMS, and some others), went over to using Reaper, until i bought Cubase LE on a mag's DVD one day. Found that better, and upgraded to Cubase Artist at some point, and then went over to using Studio One, because i found a cheap used copy. So, yeah, might take a bit to finally settle for something which works nicely for you, but, there definitely are some good DAW's, which also cater to different use cases (like, linear DAW's vs. live oriented DAW's like Bitwig and Live).

[anttimaatteri]

Try DAWson City. Plenty of gold there, i heard.

[rodanmusic]

I did the exact same thing for the exact same reasons.

It was a mistake. There is no perfect DAW, and in the end I think I may just end up sticking with FLStudio with all of its problems because I am most creative in it.

The problem is now that I've learned almost every DAW, FLStudio now has its' own set of irritants.

So I've finally just decided it'll just be Studio One and FL for me. Giving up everything else and I'm just going to live with the things that bother me.

If I could go back I would've just stuck with FL and forgot about doing all this DAW hopping.

[AdvancedFollower]

Yeah... frankly, it strikes me that people put a big focus on those "little flaws and annoyances" nowadays. You know, life for me has always been also coping with small niggles, and things you don't like. As you say, nothing is perfect. But, if every DAW is not usable for you, i think the problem is rather you than the DAW's. So... my recommendation would be: Try to cope with little things that you don't like, and find the best package for you. For me, it's Studio One. Even though i still have a Cubase Artist license. I simply think Studio One makes more things better than it makes worse, compared to Cubase.

To be fair, I've caught myself hunting for the Perfect DAW™, too. I think everyone does at some point - the grass is always greener on the other side, as they say. The first time was when I abandoned Reason because of the lack of VST support at the time (which probably made sense at the time). Then I tried Reaper for a while before getting Studio One, as it seemed more user friendly. I also ended up getting FL Studio, though I personally never got along with the workflow so I don't use it much (there's nothing "wrong" with it, I'm just so used to linear DAWs). Last year I actually got so frustrated with Automation in Studio One that I was ready to jump ship again. Then I had to ask myself whether it was really preventing me from making music...the answer was obviously no.

[CrystalWizard]

I went through Reason, Cubase, PT, to Ableton & Reaper. Decided i would rather spend my time learning the instruments instead of the DAW. Essentially any one of them does what i need, just differently (other people might need more). I’m still learning about the last two but i’m proficient enough to get some music done. I doubt learning a new DAW would serve me (ok except maybe Bitwig ) but i’m reluctant.
I say the same thing about OSs, use whatever you already have time invested in.

[anomandaris1]

The moment they add note renaming to Bitwig that makes sense (not something like adding 128 samplers to their drum machine - that's the only workaround that I found in the demo) and importing microtuning files to their native synths, I will buy it.

[Daimonicon]

Years ago I started with FL Studio, but dumped it once FL12 came out, because I wanted to change to a more linear workflow with more audio editing flexibility and better organization (no automation clips all over the place or tracks not directly being related to mixer channels etc).

I went to Logic for a while and loved many things about it, specially the smooth feeling interface, but hated its very cumbersome automation which doesn't allow vertical lines, no spontaneous switching between moving or not moving automation with region and I hated bugs like automation values not resetting properly on stop or the very nasty loud noise bug which led me to search further. Also I missed a way to pitch audio in semitones without stretching it (like in a basic sampler).

I tried Cubase, but it was immediately clear that it would not work for me as after Logic a smooth up/down/left/right navigation with the magic mouse scroll surface as well as the same for horizontal and vertical zoom by holding a modifier was a must and Cubase scrolls in steps/chunks of pixel and doesn't even offer vertical zoom via mousewheel+modifier. Furthermore quickly deleting things is very important for me and in FL as well as Logic I was able to do so with just a right click but in Cubase you have to select the eraser before erasing or select the event and hit the delete-key and that takes too long for me.

Intrigued by all the customizability I tried Reaper and I managed to build a workflow that is pretty close to what I have in mind. The scrolling and zooming is choppy like in Cubase but with some tricks I was able to change it to some extent and make it at least workable. Also deleting was not really fast but I could live with it by modifier-clicking items. However what made Reaper a no-go is the response of the interface. For example when zoomed out and wanting to move an item that has a fade, even when dragging many pixels away from the fade, instead of moving the item I was changing the fade. So all editing operations became painful and involved a lot of undoing.

As with Reaper I fell in love with item/event-based effects that can be automated inside the single event, this became another must for my DAW. Studio One now seemed the ideal candidate. Everything is reachable fast and draggable, the interface is responsive, you can load and automate effects on events and while perhaps not as flexible as Reaper, it seems to have most things I need except for sampler-type pitching of audio or tape-stops (like in Logic, loved that approach).
What makes Studio One unusable though is the awkward response of zooming via mouse+modifier. A little swipe suffices to go from maximum to minimum track height or from the whole arrangement to the samples of a waveform. All-tough all other things feel pretty much spot on, this makes also Studio One very painful to use.

I was then considering Ableton but when I found out it doesn't even have custom/remappable keyboard shortcuts (let alone macros) I didn't even download the demo. And I tried Bitwig but it was totally confusing, the actual mixer for example is tiny while there is a huge space for "scenes" that I have no clue what they are used for, also you have smooth horizontal zoom with mouse modifiers but you have to drag the space between tracks while holding alt to zoom general track height.

So I am starting to feel desperate, I have to use a DAW yet all of them seem to get in my way. Is there any DAW left that might suit me better than the ones I tried or do I have to bite the bullet and use one of those I already tried?
What I am looking for is just a traditional linear DAW with arrangement in the middle, browser on the right, inspector and tracks on the left and a nice big mixer (or fullscreen piano roll when needed) on the bottom screen. It should allow smooth navigation with only the mouse and modifier keys where I can zoom wherever I am without having to reach some slider or timeline or similar and without chunky zooming steps. Editing (and specially) deleting should be easy and doable with just single clicks, drags (and modifiers) without having to constantly change tools and sample-based sounddesign should be facilitated (like pitching with or without stretching, stretching with various algorithms, tapestops, event-envelopes for volume, pitch, pan and so on).

Ideally it has a piano-roll and sampler like FL Studio, smooth interface navigation like Logic, custom shortcuts, macros and stuff like Reaper, easy and responsive layout, automations and drag&drop mentality of Studio One and advanced features like automatable event/region/item-based fx chains, folder-tracks that act like busses and that can be nested and so on. I don't care about DAW-plugins or sample/midi content, actually the smaller the installation the better. Also I don't use external controllers exept for a traditional midi keyboard and input midi and automation with my mouse, so it can be less elaborate on the performative side but has to feature a fast mouse-based workflow.

Hope someone can come up with a suggestion. Right now the closest are Studio One and Reaper but until S1 doesn't fix mouse-zooming and Reaper doesn't fix the clunky interface I hope there are other alternatives.

Get a new hobby like knitting. Honestly no DAW is perfect and if you can't be satisfied with one you're a hopeless case.

[jonljacobi]

There's no reason to make personal folks.

[CrystalWizard]

Seriously.
And no need to quote the whole post, either.

[xbitz]

I did the exact same thing for the exact same reasons.

It was a mistake. There is no perfect DAW, and in the end I think I may just end up sticking with FLStudio with all of its problems because I am most creative in it.

The problem is now that I've learned almost every DAW, FLStudio now has its' own set of irritants.

So I've finally just decided it'll just be Studio One and FL for me. Giving up everything else and I'm just going to live with the things that bother me.

If I could go back I would've just stuck with FL and forgot about doing all this DAW hopping.

same and +1, anyway what is missing from FL is the AL/Bitwig like Instrument Rack solution which can setup quickly multiple instruments for layering etc. this why I've mentioned FreeStyle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2XKo_7ueY

with it FL is brilliant

[dakkra]

Hey xbitz, out of curiosity why do you use FreeStyle over MUX? I see you've got both, I'm curious what's got you using FreeStyle for macros on VSTs.

[Phazma]

Guys, I was never saying that no DAW allows me to make good music, I made many tracks that satisfied me as well as people I worked for in FL Studio, Logic and a few in Reaper. Put me on a desert island and give me a laptop with any DAW and I will happily make music.
It was just situations where I am in a musical flow and have the DAW interrupt it because the idea I might have needs a very tedious workaround, or editing takes way to long because the interface does not react the way I expect, that made me wonder, if by chance there is a DAW out there that bests suits my workflow by being fast at the things I need often at the expense of things that I do not need often. I have a few things that I consider essential/basic for my workflow and all other things would be tolerated the way they are but it seems that I put too many things into the "essential" category and no DAW can magically meet so many requirements.
As I still want and need to make music I think that the answer to my question is that no DAW will suit me perfectly and I should just try to understand which of the ones I tried comes closest and commit to it. Thanks to all of you for your contributions.

[enroe]

Years ago I started with ...

Let's see. You already checked:

-- FL Studio
-- Apple Logic
-- Steinberg Cubase
-- Cockos Reaper
-- Ableton
-- Bitwig

Still you could try:

-- Cakewalk by Bandlab
-- Samplitude Pro
-- Avid Protools
-- Digital Performer

[jonljacobi]

Creative flow. That's the issue isn't it? There are users who use the DAW to "create" the music, users who play instruments that just want to record and edit, users who perform live with it, users who use it to play with sound, and engineers who record other people with it. Just about every DAW out there tries to accommodate most or all of these usage scenarios and therein lies much of the problem. Throw in the legacy some of these programs are saddled with and I wouldn't wish the design problem on my worst enemy.

That said, there are a lot of DAW interfaces that don't follow anything remotely resembling best practices, or even operating system guidelines. Regardless, I cut them a lot of slack. It ain't easy designing blivets.

[anttimaatteri]

buy an 8 track recorder and instruments
watch a ton of buyers guides on youtube. get an instrument, buy all the stuff needed to be at least semipro, then watch a ton of youtube videos about how to use it like a pro. inbetween noodle around, watch further tuts on youtube about not to noodle around and start being a pro, then noodle aagain and buy some more stuff.
if youre lucky you get a grip making unbox vids, noodling a bit telling people how awesome the isntrument is. yelling aggressively can help progressing in fame. otherwise acting like you understand everyones problems helps too.

one more tip from a fail. dont watch vids with 8 year old supertalents.

if youre still not being able to make at least some pleasant NOISE like stockhausen, thinking youre the next big dude - like i do e.g. - then dont make music.

oh and because i had a good day here are some more daws:
RENOISE
podium zynewave
n-track studio
ardour (linux tho)
lmms (linux tho)
tracktion
acid pro (i dont like it)

use renoise. i still use it and i started with it. an awesome NERDhaze will surround you

DAMMIT...
i forgot to mention another great daw
OHMSTUDIO

or just buy a bass and try to
SLAPP
like davie504