Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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ruslan.st
KVRist
269 posts since 23 Oct, 2009

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am

This is a bit too big generalization. What about users who migrated from FL, Cubase, Ableton and others? Does it mean they immediately stopped creating good music?

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pattonfreak1
KVRAF
2903 posts since 15 Feb, 2007 from ...in the butt

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:09 am

mguerrero90 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am
Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:34 am

I must say though the new routing diagram in Reaper looks cool and probably makes the whole routing experience in Reaper, which has been very comprehensive but always a total hassle to work with, easier.
I find it funny how people who cant figure out how to use it are the ones who complain, while people who do use it love it. I used ableton and reason. The main reason I use ableton is because it just works better with some midi controllers I bought, otherwise its honestly pretty similar.

If you like to play around with sounds and hope that something fun comes out then yea I guess some daws are more fun to play with. But if you can come up with ideas in your head it really doesnt matter what daw you use. I dont come up with an idea and then abort it completely when I hear something else by mistake. I might be interested in it and try it out, but Im always initially trying to achieve something I want. If I start a track I always have a good idea of what it will sound like, you could give me any DAW and it will sound really similar and I would argue most musicians who are making real money can do the same.

The truth is, ableton just works, and reaper is just powerful. If you cant do your part to use it, dont critizice it because you dont measure up. Its like saying who could ever want a Bentley? Easy to say when you will never afford one.
My thoughts exactly. Never understood why people worry sooooo much about how it looks either. "Well your mix sounds fantastic but, goddamn is it ugly"

Izak Synthiemental
KVRian
772 posts since 4 Aug, 2010

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 am

mguerrero90 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am

I find it funny how people who cant figure out how to use it are the ones who complain, while people who do use it love it. ...

If you like to play around with sounds and hope that something fun comes out then yea I guess some daws are more fun to play with. But if you can come up with ideas in your head it really doesnt matter what daw you use.
Not a very reasonable argument. There are intrinsic differences in the way different applications work, even if they claim to be suitable for the exact same task. While in theory you can do the exact same in Reaper as in Ableton Live, it's simply not executed as efficiently and hassle-free in Reaper as it is in Ableton Live. This has little to do with the level of skill or "figuring out" how to operate that specific software, but it's more about how well an application is designed in terms of user experience.

In fact: if two applications aim to do the exact same thing (eg music composition), but one allows even inexperienced users to get a grip on the intricacies of the specific workflow within a short period, while the other application requires one to "figuring out" basic functionality in a tedious process first, because the application is designed so poorly that nothing makes immediate sense, then clearly the more accessible and self-explanatory application that allows you to realize the task more efficiently is the superior one.

You make it sound as if Ableton users are all some dumb kids who just "play around with sounds" and if lucky by coincidence create a melody or even more comprehensive piece. While there might be such users in the huge user base of Ableton, it would be too much of an over-generalization to claim that everyone who uses Ableton was like that.

There are ten-thousands, maybe hundred-thousands of great, highly creative and inventive artists doing phenomenal things in Ableton, while I'm still waiting to see something that was done using Reaper which impresses me personally. I don't think it's a coincidence that most "Reaper musician" make totally horrible, amateurish sounding music with no sense of musicality, harmony, melodic structure, rhythm or groove at all - they are too busy trying exotic functions and parameters, instead of focussing on the musical aspect.
http://soundcloud.com/samaritageto

Proper Education Always Corrects Errors

Izak Synthiemental
KVRian
772 posts since 4 Aug, 2010

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:21 am

ruslan.st wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am
This is a bit too big generalization. What about users who migrated from FL, Cubase, Ableton and others? Does it mean they immediately stopped creating good music?
Good question. Honestly, I doubt that there are tons of users who used to make music professionally in FL, Cubase, Logic or Ableton, who switched to Reaper because they like the workflow better. I can imagine that maybe some mixing and mastering engineers like to explore Reapers wealth of functionality, but especially for modern producers that like to work using virtual instruments, Reaper does not offer any real advantage and actually makes music creation more difficult (more costly, because you have to spend more of your professional time figuring basic functions out that would be self-explanatory or intuitive in well-designed DAWs).
http://soundcloud.com/samaritageto

Proper Education Always Corrects Errors

mguerrero90
KVRist
59 posts since 8 May, 2019

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:43 am

Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 am
While in theory you can do the exact same in Reaper as in Ableton Live, it's simply not executed as efficiently and hassle-free in Reaper as it is in Ableton Live.
Let me fix that
While in theory you can do the exact same in Reaper as in Ableton Live, and Reaper is in fact an incredibly solid program, im just to stupid to figure it out, and thats fine.
You make it sound as if Ableton users are all some dumb kids who just "play around with sounds" and if lucky by coincidence create a melody or even more comprehensive piece.
Im an Ableton user primarily. I know tons of amazing musicians making great music with Ableton.

Its like someone learning to play piano saying C mayor or A minor are the easiest keys to play. They dont really know what they are talking about because they lack experience. Ableton does have its advanteges, but just because you refuse, or are just unable to, learn Reaper, it doesnt mean that the problems you have are universal. Do you see anybody else who likes Reaper really complaining about the interface? I like it, it looks dry and serious. A lot of people like it. A lot of people have the brain power and patience to memorize were things are. Dont insult them, just enjoy your path and let others be.

Reaper does do some things better, like recording takes over loops for example. It also has so many customization options that you are bound to find some workflow that works for you. And yea, IT IS a bit more geared towards acoustic recording than making beats, so?

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toonertik
KVRAF
2029 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:45 am

Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:21 am
ruslan.st wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am
This is a bit too big generalization. What about users who migrated from FL, Cubase, Ableton and others? Does it mean they immediately stopped creating good music?
Good question. Honestly, I doubt that there are tons of users who used to make music professionally in FL, Cubase, Logic or Ableton, who switched to Reaper because they like the workflow better. I can imagine that maybe some mixing and mastering engineers like to explore Reapers wealth of functionality, but especially for modern producers that like to work using virtual instruments, Reaper does not offer any real advantage and actually makes music creation more difficult (more costly, because you have to spend more of your professional time figuring basic functions out that would be self-explanatory or intuitive in well-designed DAWs).
I've seen a few who have migrated from PT... others I have seen use Reaper to do pro video work, there a some who use tools like Ableton and Reaper (and other tools.. Samplitude, Acid and other tools, as I do, for specific tasks).

Learning any tools takes time... but there are advantages to using Reaper for some things... If you can't figure them out because you don't need them>> fine!

I can't say I find that music creation is more difficult than other DAWs...

Don't go round judging others by your own ability or expectations....


But thanks for the belly ache laugh I had reading your opinionated "facts"

:lol:

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toonertik
KVRAF
2029 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:47 am

pattonfreak1 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:09 am

My thoughts exactly. Never understood why people worry sooooo much about how it looks either. "Well your mix sounds fantastic but, goddamn is it ugly"
:tu:

Yup...


and I have even had great sex with some "uglies" :wink:

imrae
KVRian
894 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:59 am

Hence Reaper, Bitwig and FL are used by people who actually create great music, while Live is a simplified product for kids who like to copy Sylenth tutorials on youtube.
See how a) easy b) divisive and c) unhelpful this kind of comment is?

(Don't worry Live users, I love (most of) you really :hug: )

bassg
KVRist
52 posts since 23 May, 2014 from Czech republic

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:16 am

Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 am
I don't think it's a coincidence that most "Reaper musician" make totally horrible, amateurish sounding music with no sense of musicality, harmony, melodic structure, rhythm or groove at all - they are too busy trying exotic functions and parameters, instead of focussing on the musical aspect.
LOL...you're being funny now. But I think it was supposed to sound..."controversial", right? Anyway, if you find music of e.g. Dom & Roland amateurish then I can see where you're coming from. Not to mention that there could be a lot of music recorded and mixed in REAPER which you might not even know about...

But all's good, we all have our preference and opinion, no problem with that. :)

Izak Synthiemental
KVRian
772 posts since 4 Aug, 2010

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:24 am

mguerrero90 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:43 am
Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 am
While in theory you can do the exact same in Reaper as in Ableton Live, it's simply not executed as efficiently and hassle-free in Reaper as it is in Ableton Live.
Let me fix that
While in theory you can do the exact same in Reaper as in Ableton Live, and Reaper is in fact an incredibly solid program, im just to stupid to figure it out, and thats fine.
Let's assume for argument's sake your personal attack and insult of my intelligence had any foundation in reality: why is it that I can easily create music in Ableton, while I can't "figure out" how to do it in Reaper? Are you saying Reaper is only suitable for rocket scientists like you, who spend their spare time insulting strangers on internet forums? :lol:

Okay, let's assume Ableton is more accessible to 'dumb' people like me and allows me to do the exact same thing that I wish I could do in Reaper, but find to difficult to execute there: is that not actually an argument pro-Ableton? It speaks for the design decisions that the Ableton developer team made: they clearly understand the needs of their user base. Hence I said that Reaper users are mostly nerds who like to customize every aspect and who like to combine exotic functions to do weird things to their audio, while Ableton users are more typically straight up creative people who want to make actual music = different needs, different tools.
http://soundcloud.com/samaritageto

Proper Education Always Corrects Errors

User avatar
mgw38
KVRAF
2206 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:39 am

toonertik wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:45 am
I've seen a few who have migrated from PT... others I have seen use Reaper to do pro video work, there a some who use tools like Ableton and Reaper (and other tools.. Samplitude, Acid and other tools, as I do, for specific tasks).
One of the things most people don't realize is that Reaper can do certain things no other DAW can do. The way it allows you to work with multichannel audio beats anything else on the market, including Pro Tools Ultimate. It is the only DAW next to Nuendo that has a functional Wwise integration. And it's channel routing possibilities are just divine.

But boy, is it ugly. :lol:

bassg
KVRist
52 posts since 23 May, 2014 from Czech republic

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:52 am

mgw38 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:39 am
But boy, is it ugly. :lol:
To balance this out - it looks awesome! V6 theme is great, even better than the V5 theme which I liked very much. YMMV and all that, you know. :lol:

User avatar
toonertik
KVRAF
2029 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:56 am

mgw38 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:39 am
toonertik wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:45 am
I've seen a few who have migrated from PT... others I have seen use Reaper to do pro video work, there a some who use tools like Ableton and Reaper (and other tools.. Samplitude, Acid and other tools, as I do, for specific tasks).
One of the things most people don't realize is that Reaper can do certain things no other DAW can do. The way it allows you to work with multichannel audio beats anything else on the market, including Pro Tools Ultimate. It is the only DAW next to Nuendo that has a functional Wwise integration. And it's channel routing possibilities are just divine.

But boy, is it ugly. :lol:
Before I got into VCV Rack and then real HW rack.. I had Reaper set up a bit like a modular multi synth... with the routing and modulation and 3rd party modulation.. what else could do that... nada.

look buddy...
you and your mates might think my GF is butt ugly
but with my rose tinted glasses...
she is boootiful :love:

:P
:hihi:

himalaya
KVRAF
5166 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:01 am

Dynamic split
add preset support
overhaul and improvements to algorithm and gate handling
retain settings after canceling the window
I'm looking forward to trying that, as I've always struggled with Dynamic Split.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

neverbeeninariot
KVRist
297 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 am

Izak Synthiemental wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:24 am
Hence I said that Reaper users are mostly nerds who like to customize every aspect and who like to combine exotic functions to do weird things to their audio, while Ableton users are more typically straight up creative people who want to make actual music = different needs, different tools.
I must have missed that survey. What was the sample size, if you don't mind me asking? :P

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