Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRist
147 posts since 6 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:15 pm

4damind wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:41 pm
I don't know any statistics about Bitwig's growth. For me it was just too immature and buggy with version 1, so I quickly left Bitwig.
Would I give Bitwig another chance today? I think not. I've been using Cubase for so many years and I would simply miss too many features.
Otherwise I would rather give preference to Ableton. Bitwig is not an option for me.
It's precisely because you work with Cubase that Bitwig should be much closer than Ableton Live. So if I were you, I'd try Bitwig 3.1 before looking after Ableton Live. Things like a real mixer, fade editing, MIDI editing (even if always denounced) far more exciting than the still primitive Ableton Live options after all these years, Bounce in Place (better than in Logic or Pro Tools), fantastic browser at eye sight with the MediaBay (actually much simpler, but just as capable as), absolute and relative automation, best stretching algos (implementation) out there (even more comprehensive and better sounding than Cubase, no slice type there after all these years), auto tempo detection of whole tracks, comping via layered editing, not to mention the completely easy but super comprehensive grid etc.

After I could hardly work with it on macOS til now, I'm back on track with Metal support since Bitwig 3.1 and enjoy the super effective workflow as a electronic music producer. Of course there are still one or two things missing. But what's there is already quite upper edge stuff (e.g. browser, stretching quality, fantastic routing options, multiple instruments on one track, note fx, insane modulations due to a plethora of modulators usable with any plug-in, insane side-chaining options, oversampled grid (modular system) etc.)
Last edited by outerspacecat on Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
3651 posts since 10 Sep, 2010 from A shit hole (Ireland).

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:25 pm

I tried V1 and bugged out soon after because it didn't have a lot of features that I needed (at the time). It over promised and didn't deliver so I sold my license.

Ableton + Studio One got me covered so no need to go back. I'm sure it's well evolved now and is a good DAW but I've not ever kept up with its development as I've no need to.

As for 'stats' I dunno if they are true or false.
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens

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KVRAF
5490 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:06 pm

outerspacecat wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:15 pm
It's precisely because you work with Cubase that Bitwig should be much closer than Ableton Live. So if I were you, I'd try Bitwig 3.1 before looking after Ableton Live. Things like a real mixer, fade editing, MIDI editing (even if always denounced) far more exciting than the still primitive Ableton Live options after all these years, Bounce in Place (better than in Logic or Pro Tools), fantastic browser at eye sight with the MediaBay (actually much simpler, but just as capable as), absolute and relative automation, best stretching algos (implementation) out there (even more comprehensive and better sounding than Cubase, no slice type there after all these years), auto tempo detection of whole tracks, comping via layered editing, not to mention the completely easy but super comprehensive grid etc.
Of course Bitwig makes some things better. But in the end most people are interested in the whole package and that includes also how it is accepted in the industry. Bitwig seems to have a general problem being accepted as a professional DAW. Maybe this comes from the problems with the first version. The musicians who come from other big DAWs like Logic seem to prefer Ableton for some reason. I don't remember a name I know that has moved to Bitwig (even people like Jarre are using now Ableton)

KVRAF
1751 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:29 pm

I thought Bitwig was so promising, I made up a reason to cover it for PCWorld while it was still in beta. Waited through all of 1.x for some basic functionality to be fixed or improved. 2.x and 3.x fixed none of it, while making the interface significantly less efficient for mouse users. Tons of new features I could care less about while you still can’t efficiently time correct notes in audio. Moved on after 2.x when it became apparent that the company’s priorities lay elsewhere.

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:30 pm

To answer the original question, I gave Bitwig a red-hot go for a year or so but it never gelled with me. It always felt like it was made for someone else and that even if I could make it work for me, my needs would never be a priority for development. This was confirmed when v3 came out, adding the grid thing, which I have less than no interest in. I also found the quality of the bundled instruments and effects to be quite poor compared to what I was used to in Orion.

OTOH, I was surprised how quickly I felt at home in Cubase. I got more done in my first 3 months using Cubase than I had in all the time I spent using Bitwig. To be fair, my Bitwig experience might have prepared me better for Cubase. I think whatever I tried to use to directly replace Orion was always going to feel like a shit sandwich, so having Bitwig as a buffer probably made Cubase seem like a better alternative than if I'd gone straight from Orion to Cubase.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRAF
3001 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:33 pm

4damind wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Of course Bitwig makes some things better. But in the end most people are interested in the whole package and that includes also how it is accepted in the industry. Bitwig seems to have a general problem being accepted as a professional DAW. Maybe this comes from the problems with the first version. The musicians who come from other big DAWs like Logic seem to prefer Ableton for some reason. I don't remember a name I know that has moved to Bitwig (even people like Jarre are using now Ableton)
Deedrah moved to Bitwig from Logic and we will see more of that in future when word of mouth starts spreading in those circles, most people don’t know it exist, Live is over hyped.

https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/ ... _pro_x_vs/
Gonna leave this link again, now it fits perfectly, that’s sad superficial reality...

KVRAF
3001 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:03 pm

I'm coming from Cubase/Logic and Bitwig clicked with me instantly, was trying to get into Live for almost a decade and even if I realized benefits, that thing is just plain weird and unbearable, everyone was raving about it and I get it, it's simpler to do some things than Logic, but now there's alternative to that workflow that makes much more sense, so happy camper.

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KVRist
207 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:52 pm

Using both Live and Bitwig atm (before that FL and Reason). I think if I started with Bitwig before using Live, I would be perfectly happy with it. But I have a lot of custom racks and other presets saved for Live and I love that you can customize the UI and that Capture function and overall I'm still more used to the workflow. I'm mostly using Bitwig to make some tracks with the Grid and heavy modulation or VSTis when I know that I want to use full MPE options. After that I often export and switch to Live for further processing. But I think I could get by with only using Bitwig without any real problems.

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:12 pm

Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:33 pm
Deedrah moved to Bitwig from Logic and we will see more of that in future when word of mouth starts spreading in those circles, most people don’t know it exist, Live is over hyped.
Who or what the hell is Deedrah? (Obviously, it's a rhetorical question - I looked it up - but you can't expect everyone to just know who people in your chosen genre are and you certainly can't think that just because someone nobody has heard of does something that the rest of the world is bound to follow suit.)
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRist

Topic Starter

382 posts since 25 Aug, 2019

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:35 pm

After spending several months learning FL Studio and $130 on the license, I don't really like it and I'm not going to use it anymore. The piano roll, the feel of the interface, and these comments on KVR "every DAW today is capable as others" made me buy it. Everything was fine until projects started to get complicated and FL Studio doesn't have any logical structure, grouping or nesting, it's like most of the time I'm spending on tying things together.
For example the new CV plugin in FL, it cannot control a synth on it's own, it needs to be inside a patcher with another plugin for midi, then I need to connect it to a separate mixer channel, but since FL doesn't have mono outputs, it needs to be panned on left or right channel, then on a separate mixer channel I need to receive an incoming audio. Of course because it's FL Studio and every part "lives" on it's own this whole setup cannot be saved as preset.
In Bitwig I just drop a HW CV plugin on a track and it's done. This is just a small example how painful the workflow in FL Studio is.
I also tried to use Ableton Lite and Studio One Artist, but didn't like them. I like how Cubase looks and features it got and I want to try it, but it requires a Steinberg USB to install the trial version (!).
So regarding Bitwig, I'm feeling suspicious because it's really good but not "exploding" in popularity, and I don't want another DAW that will need to be replaced after few months, that's why I opened this topic.

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:46 pm

That's because FL Studio started out as a standalone drum machine and all the rest of it has been bolted on over time. I thought they might have made a break from the past at v20 but it's still as bad as it ever was. No worse than Bitwig for me, though. And before you ask, it's 2020 and I haven't had to use CV+Gate since I bought my first MIDI sequencer in 1985, so your example is not compelling in any way.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

Skunk Mod
21282 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:54 pm

It's okay to ask other people's opinions, but don't let them make the decision for you. What works for me might be frustrating for you, and vice versa.

I haven't left Bitwig — I quite enjoy it. But it's not perfect. Nothing is, sad to say. I have several DAWs and pick different ones for different kinds of projects.

If I want to use Max, Ableton is a natural companion. I've been using Reason since version 2.0, so it feels super-familiar. Cakewalk has gone out of business but Sonar Platinum is the DAW I've used most (since the mid-1990s) so I keep using it for certain kinds of music. I'm fairly new to Studio One but Notion, the notation program from the same company, makes it a good choice for more formal pieces. Bones and I disagree on many things but we both like working in Cubase. And so on.

You might read this and think, "That's crazy! Why would anyone use ____?" For me it's not crazy, but for you it might be. Use what suits YOU.

As the years pass your opinions might change. That's natural. Try different things, and don't be afraid to bring new software into your toolbox. And sometimes, when you're not sure what to do musically, try something you didn't like at first — FL Studio maybe (you can't resell it, but you get lifetime updates) — and try it again. You might discover aspects that you missed the first time around. Or maybe not. Can't hurt to try.

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KVRAF
3879 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:11 pm

I'm in the process of giving Bitwig a solid go. It's very CPU efficient on my system, much much more so than Live. Honestly if anyone chooses a DAW based on popularity.... :dog:

KVRAF
1751 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pm

Meffy... You know Cakewalk is now developed by BandLab?

KVRist
125 posts since 5 Jul, 2019

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:27 pm

The modify everything paradigm is interesting but I didn't find it that useful for me and I'm not that into designing my own instruments via Grid. VCV Rack is more intuitive when I want to patch things together.
The audio editing/recording workflow was somewhat more frustrating than Logic+Live - but I do dearly wish Live had a similar bounce feature.

I probably would have stuck with it but it ran poorly on my new iMac (i9, 64GB RAM) where Ableton and Logic saw a (mild) improvement.

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