Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:24 pm

having jumped from mac to windows and from bitwig to ableton to fl studio and now playing with bitwig again, one of the things that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is that bitwig is missing a simple sample browser with a easy to read font. the one on the right is just too tiny and annoying with it's single column and small fontsize. the interactive one needs to much configuration.

The left lane browser in fl studio and ableton is very handy, they should just get on with it and integrate one in bitwig as well.

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KVRAF
9382 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:32 pm

docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:24 pm
having jumped from mac to windows and from bitwig to ableton to fl studio and now playing with bitwig again, one of the things that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is that bitwig is missing a simple sample browser with a easy to read font. the one on the right is just too tiny and annoying with it's single column and small fontsize. the interactive one needs to much configuration.

The left lane browser in fl studio and ableton is very handy, they should just get on with it and integrate one in bitwig as well.
The fonts sizes between the 3 aren't really different and FL looks ridiculous with its 90's Amiga demo-scene typeface there. All three have single-column browser, as well. The main difference is FL's and Live's are on the left, while Bitwig's on the right. Lastly, you know you can right-click on Bitwig's top-bar and increase zoom level, which includes fonts?
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:02 pm

antic604 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:32 pm
docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:24 pm
having jumped from mac to windows and from bitwig to ableton to fl studio and now playing with bitwig again, one of the things that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is that bitwig is missing a simple sample browser with a easy to read font. the one on the right is just too tiny and annoying with it's single column and small fontsize. the interactive one needs to much configuration.

The left lane browser in fl studio and ableton is very handy, they should just get on with it and integrate one in bitwig as well.
The fonts sizes between the 3 aren't really different and FL looks ridiculous with its 90's Amiga demo-scene typeface there. All three have single-column browser, as well. The main difference is FL's and Live's are on the left, while Bitwig's on the right. Lastly, you know you can right-click on Bitwig's top-bar and increase zoom level, which includes fonts?
FLs browser is so smooth, scrolling, previewing and dragging samples away from it is a dream, it's font size can be changed in case you didn't know and it's also getting an upgrade soon.

Ableton has two lanes. Bitwig is annyoing because of the small font and if you want to change folders you have to constantly go up into the folder select box and then down again, in this case a simple single 100% height lane as in FL works much better. And Ableton works better because the selection box is not eating into the lane height with the samples. Also the drag distance is much too long if its on the right side of the screen.

I like Bitwig, but the fixed browser needs to be improved.

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KVRAF
9382 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:16 pm

Ok, those are valid complaints, then :tu:

I'm not a fan of the side-browser either, but the pop-up one can't be used to drag samples on the timeline. Otherwise I'd never use the former, although I'm in minority :)
Last edited by antic604 on Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
660 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:30 pm

docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:02 pm
antic604 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:32 pm
docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:24 pm
having jumped from mac to windows and from bitwig to ableton to fl studio and now playing with bitwig again, one of the things that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is that bitwig is missing a simple sample browser with a easy to read font. the one on the right is just too tiny and annoying with it's single column and small fontsize. the interactive one needs to much configuration.

The left lane browser in fl studio and ableton is very handy, they should just get on with it and integrate one in bitwig as well.
The fonts sizes between the 3 aren't really different and FL looks ridiculous with its 90's Amiga demo-scene typeface there. All three have single-column browser, as well. The main difference is FL's and Live's are on the left, while Bitwig's on the right. Lastly, you know you can right-click on Bitwig's top-bar and increase zoom level, which includes fonts?
FLs browser is so smooth, scrolling, previewing and dragging samples away from it is a dream, it's font size can be changed in case you didn't know and it's also getting an upgrade soon.

Ableton has two lanes. Bitwig is annyoing because of the small font and if you want to change folders you have to constantly go up into the folder select box and then down again, in this case a simple single 100% height lane as in FL works much better. And Ableton works better because the selection box is not eating into the lane height with the samples. Also the drag distance is much too long if its on the right side of the screen.

I like Bitwig, but the fixed browser needs to be improved.

I think the issue some people have with Bitwig's browser is that they don't realize that its search functionality is extremely good and the developers kind of want you to use that. For me I don't usually browse any folders etc in the browser because that is a bit of a mess. However I did create collections of categories for kicks, loops, snares, etc and Bitwig takes care of the rest for me. I can just browse my collections and don't have to bother searching each folder, as long as the samples are named something relevant Bitwig with index all of that stuff and it does it better/faster than either FLStudio or Ableton.

As for the left vs right thing. Considering pretty much every other DAW except FLStudio and Ableton has theirs on the right, I don't buy this whole thing about it being too far to drag. Bitwig and other DAWs like Studio One, Cubase, and Logic also have an Inspector view which both Ableton and FLStudio don't have. That would mean too much space being taken up on side of the screen. The inspector is very necessary component of Bitwig as there are some parameters for devices that can only be controlled from there.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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KVRist
60 posts since 19 Apr, 2021

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:20 pm

We had a short disagreement, we needed some space but after a while with old boring Ableton i realized i needed to run back to where the excitement was.
Noise Producer

KVRAF
7709 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:36 pm

I think because it seems more logical to have any kind of 'inspector' or track data on left (next to where the track information usual is in a linier DAW as they tend to scroll left to right) it makes sense to me to put a browser on the right.

I also prefer the 'pop up browser' and smart collections and I leave my side browser shut in Bitwig by most of the time. As a Live and Bitwig user, I find the PUB (as no one calls it) to be one of he features I miss the most when using Live which I think has one of the worst browsers- very little is pre-sorted for you, they don't even separate VST instruments and fx and the 1000's of samples they provide are not curated, they just appear as a ridiculously long list!

As for FL...its a patchwork quilt of great ideas and stupid ideas stitched together in to a very colourful but ultimately (to me) confusing pattern based DAW...personally I think of it more like 'NI Maschine' in workflow...people seem to love it though, so what do I know!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:59 am

To each his own, if you're not dragging samples much and working quick than fine, but it's noticable when compared to FL and Ableton that Bitwig is just slower to use which is a shame because of all the nice features.

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KVRian
543 posts since 27 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:21 am

docbot wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:59 am
To each his own, if you're not dragging samples much and working quick than fine, but it's noticable when compared to FL and Ableton that Bitwig is just slower to use which is a shame because of all the nice features.
With right hands it is not slower. Don't know about FLStudio, but Bitwig and Ableton is the same speed.

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:35 am

it's slower and worse designed. It's pretty easy to see.
Bitwig has no functional tree struction (!) - to change folders you constantly have to go up and down (repeat x times), you see so little of your folder structure since they are on top of each other, the contrast of the white text on black is straining to the eye. It's much less strainful and quicker to move your mouse left/right (which you can use in ableton to navigate to pinned folders)

Both FL and Ableton have a folder structure that doesn't require you to constantly hop between windows and you see soo much more.

Bitwig just needs to get on top of it

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KVRian
543 posts since 27 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:48 am

That's minor thing for me. It has better search function, it easier to deal with clips, group clips, synths presets etc.
If it is problem for you in Bitwig, just install ADSR Sample Manager and that's it.

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KVRian
1311 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:49 am

I have ditched Bitwig twice, and each time I felt it was closer to staying. Here are my thoughts:

1. Ableton has Max For Live. This is 90% of why I'm staying with Ableton. The grid is fine, but Max offers unlimited potential.
2. I'm on a Mac, I want to use Audio Units. Bitwig is so uptight about this. I really hate that some VSTs are VST2 and some are VST3 and have different features. It's a nitpick, I know, but it is what it is.
3. Related to the above point, I'm on a laptop with limited HD space. I delete all the unused AAX and VST plugins because they're taking up useless space.
4. Everything above would me totally forgivable if I could pipe audio/midi into and out of Bitwig easily, similar to how ReWire works. I think I could do it with some creative Audio/Midi routing in macOS, but that's a real PITA to set up and I can't be bothered.
5. Bitwig feels more productive and more useful if you just stick to using Bitwig without any plugins. Embrace the full modulation system, embrace the Bitwig way of doing things.

As it is, I don't want to deal with context switching when producing, so I'm staying with Ableton. If Bitwig made it easier to collaborate with non-Bitwig applications I would strongly consider using it more. The grid is awesome. The mod system is awesome. Their newer devices are really nice.

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KVRist
349 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:59 am

dangayle wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:49 am
I have ditched Bitwig twice, and each time I felt it was closer to staying. Here are my thoughts:

1. Ableton has Max For Live. This is 90% of why I'm staying with Ableton. The grid is fine, but Max offers unlimited potential.
2. I'm on a Mac, I want to use Audio Units. Bitwig is so uptight about this. I really hate that some VSTs are VST2 and some are VST3 and have different features. It's a nitpick, I know, but it is what it is.
3. Related to the above point, I'm on a laptop with limited HD space. I delete all the unused AAX and VST plugins because they're taking up useless space.
4. Everything above would me totally forgivable if I could pipe audio/midi into and out of Bitwig easily, similar to how ReWire works. I think I could do it with some creative Audio/Midi routing in macOS, but that's a real PITA to set up and I can't be bothered.
5. Bitwig feels more productive and more useful if you just stick to using Bitwig without any plugins. Embrace the full modulation system, embrace the Bitwig way of doing things.

As it is, I don't want to deal with context switching when producing, so I'm staying with Ableton. If Bitwig made it easier to collaborate with non-Bitwig applications I would strongly consider using it more. The grid is awesome. The mod system is awesome. Their newer devices are really nice.
Huh?
I don't know what you're going on about and I feel that ableton doesn't play as friendly with 3rd party plugins while bitwig can modulate and handle 3rd party plugins better as well as having sandboxing of them to not crash the software if a plugin craps out.

What exactly is special about audio units?

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KVRian
543 posts since 27 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:04 am

Also 3rd party midi plugins is pain in the ass to set up in Ableton, Bitwig is breeze. Just drop on the track and that's it. You can even drop Avenger, Ana2 for example before plugin and use it as Arp. Why Ableton can't make it as easy?

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KVRian
1311 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:10 am

MuzikFreq wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:59 am
Huh?
I don't know what you're going on about and I feel that ableton doesn't play as friendly with 3rd party plugins while bitwig can modulate and handle 3rd party plugins better as well as having sandboxing of them to not crash the software if a plugin craps out.

What exactly is special about audio units?
I have no issues with how Bitwig sandboxes their plugins. That's quite nice. It's not that AUs are better, it's that in general they seem to be more consistent. Parameters tend to have the right units, unlike some VST 2 plugins, and have all the multichannel stuff, etc. Really, this is just a nitpick.

The midi thing with Bitwig is much better than Ableton, by far, so I can't argue there.

What I am saying is that I want Bitwig to be more open. As it is, I tend to think of it a one giant amazing instrument that happens to have some DAW features. If they went the route of Reason or FL Studio or Renoise and give me a version of their platform that I could more easily use with Ableton, I'd be all over it.

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