Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRAF
2431 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:17 am

I use the browser for sample browsing, and i haven't a problem of the browser. I come from Reason, and i've not much experience of Ableton.

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:28 pm

Stan Navi wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:48 am
That's minor thing for me. It has better search function, it easier to deal with clips, group clips, synths presets etc.
If it is problem for you in Bitwig, just install ADSR Sample Manager and that's it.
but it doesn't have to be either or, it just needs a simple easy browser that shows a lot of info and can fold/unfold folders and show the files within it without me having to move to a second window.

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KVRist
213 posts since 21 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:18 pm

To jump in to share my thoughts I much prefer the Bitwig browser to Ableton's or some others.

I just search by typing the kind of sound I'm looking for and if I want a specific folder I just type the name of the folder before the type of sound, another way is to create smart favourites folders that keep updated to any directory you want easy access to.

The only feature I'm missing is a randomising results to spicy things up. I dread the Ableton endless clicking to access folders within folders while searching, to access any sounds. Also some improvements on drag-n-dropping audio from and to the browser and system files.

KVRist
49 posts since 9 Dec, 2014

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:15 pm

Well, I have bought and sold bitwig studio 3 times now. It is absolutely amazing and the posts above about the browser bit the nail on the head - it is a brilliant browser as are the built in instruments, the grid. I just found that I was producing music that sounded identical to everything else makes - it isn't the sequencer it's me. I have been running Logic for years along with Reason on and off and I have dabbled in Live but they all have the same end result for me. I really want to move into hardware instead so have my eyes on the digitakt to spark some life into my production. Bitwig is brilliant but just not for me.
- Bitwig Studio - Reason Suite -

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KVRAF
7209 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:48 pm

bangaio wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:15 pm
Well, I have bought and sold bitwig studio 3 times now. It is absolutely amazing and the posts above about the browser bit the nail on the head - it is a brilliant browser as are the built in instruments, the grid. I just found that I was producing music that sounded identical to everything else makes - it isn't the sequencer it's me. I have been running Logic for years along with Reason on and off and I have dabbled in Live but they all have the same end result for me. I really want to move into hardware instead so have my eyes on the digitakt to spark some life into my production. Bitwig is brilliant but just not for me.
You need to be in control of your tools so that you reach the result you are planning in your head ;) DAWs are just tools differ in the workflow, but you should make the same music in all of them (which is normal, not a negative thing)!

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KVRAF
9382 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:51 am

bangaio wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:15 pm
...I just found that I was producing music that sounded identical to everything else makes - it isn't the sequencer it's me. I have been running Logic for years along with Reason on and off and I have dabbled in Live but they all have the same end result for me...
1) I don't believe they sound the same, as everything about your tools - workflow, features, even GUI design - informs the process and thus the outcome. That's my experience, at least.

2) If that's true though, then it means you're only using the surface-level features of your DAWs; and I'm not saying this as a negative, just a (potential) fact - perhaps the basic stuff is enough to realise your artistic vision.

3) But if both of the above are true, you could just as well dump Logic, Reason or Live as you don't rely on their inherently unique features and get the same result whatever you use - so I'm expecting you posting the same post in all the other "why you left [...]?" ;) :D
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
49 posts since 9 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:15 am

With Live I have my session workflow absolutely down. I first used Live from v1.5 and live in in the session view. I have played live with it, DJ'd with it, jammed with it. I find moving to arrangement tricky in Live.

I have used Reason since V1. I remember receiving the box in the post. I know Reason inside out but find the sequencer frustrating and outdated. I sold my suite license a while back but have lite still and am trying to get used to using it as a plugin.

Logic does everything I need it to - I don't love it but it has so much power and flexibility.

Then enter Bitwig. Let me explain. As I said I loved the look the feel, the browser, the instruments but:

Session view just didn't gel with me as I am so skewed by years on Live.
I found the mixer clunky and effects sends lacking compared to Logic.
The grid just overwhelmed me. The built in ready made instruments are amazing but I also am busy with other things and learning the grid is just too much.
I get the power of the modulation system - it is incredible but actually for what i am making I don't need it.
The way the sequencer intermixes tracks and clips makes things annoying when MIDI editing.
I prefer the inspector in Live to the context changing side bar in Bitwig. It makes more sense.

Like I said I think it is an amazing tool but just not for me - I think I need things a bit more "plain vanilla".
- Bitwig Studio - Reason Suite -

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KVRAF
9382 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 am

^^^ Thanks, makes perfect sense! :tu:
bangaio wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:15 am
I prefer the inspector in Live to the context changing side bar in Bitwig. It makes more sense.
Can't agree enough about this, actually :)
viewtopic.php?p=8087383#p8087383
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:23 am

GNXT wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:18 pm
To jump in to share my thoughts I much prefer the Bitwig browser to Ableton's or some others.

I just search by typing the kind of sound I'm looking for and if I want a specific folder I just type the name of the folder before the type of sound, another way is to create smart favourites folders that keep updated to any directory you want easy access to.

The only feature I'm missing is a randomising results to spicy things up. I dread the Ableton endless clicking to access folders within folders while searching, to access any sounds. Also some improvements on drag-n-dropping audio from and to the browser and system files.
I don't think it's too much to ask to have a simple "explorer" like folder browser that shows a lot of visual information. I have so many sample folders with wierd names, I can't possibly type them out to just access them (who has the time...)

I don't get why people become so overly protective. The Pop-up browser is great (although laggy and slow to preview files), but the static browser does have room for some improvements.

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KVRAF
19457 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:45 am

docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:23 am
GNXT wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:18 pm
To jump in to share my thoughts I much prefer the Bitwig browser to Ableton's or some others.

I just search by typing the kind of sound I'm looking for and if I want a specific folder I just type the name of the folder before the type of sound, another way is to create smart favourites folders that keep updated to any directory you want easy access to.

The only feature I'm missing is a randomising results to spicy things up. I dread the Ableton endless clicking to access folders within folders while searching, to access any sounds. Also some improvements on drag-n-dropping audio from and to the browser and system files.
I don't think it's too much to ask to have a simple "explorer" like folder browser that shows a lot of visual information. I have so many sample folders with wierd names, I can't possibly type them out to just access them (who has the time...)

I don't get why people become so overly protective. The Pop-up browser is great (although laggy and slow to preview files), but the static browser does have room for some improvements.
One of the things I never liked about Live was the browser and was happy to leave it behind. I much prefer the Bitwig browser and find what I want faster than I ever did in Live. If someone says make the Bitwig browser like Ableton, then hell yeah I feel protective! :wink:

Now if someone suggests ways to make the Bitwig browser a better version of the Bitwig browser, great.

I mean no offense, but sounds like you need to take an afternoon and re-organize your samples and give them useful folder names. That will likely do more for your searching efficiency than any feature implementation in the browser.

KVRAF
7708 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:49 am

Ditto, as a Live 11 and Bitwig user I far prefer the Bitwig browser, in fact it is one of the things i miss most when using Live.
Having collection in Live has made things much better, but why so few of them? Why are all my VST fx and instruments just bundled together, surely Live can at least sort them in to fx and instruments??
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRist
483 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:11 am

SLiC wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:49 am
Why are all my VST fx and instruments just bundled together, surely Live can at least sort them in to fx and instruments??
+1000

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:57 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:45 am
docbot wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:23 am
GNXT wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:18 pm
To jump in to share my thoughts I much prefer the Bitwig browser to Ableton's or some others.

I just search by typing the kind of sound I'm looking for and if I want a specific folder I just type the name of the folder before the type of sound, another way is to create smart favourites folders that keep updated to any directory you want easy access to.

The only feature I'm missing is a randomising results to spicy things up. I dread the Ableton endless clicking to access folders within folders while searching, to access any sounds. Also some improvements on drag-n-dropping audio from and to the browser and system files.
I don't think it's too much to ask to have a simple "explorer" like folder browser that shows a lot of visual information. I have so many sample folders with wierd names, I can't possibly type them out to just access them (who has the time...)

I don't get why people become so overly protective. The Pop-up browser is great (although laggy and slow to preview files), but the static browser does have room for some improvements.
One of the things I never liked about Live was the browser and was happy to leave it behind. I much prefer the Bitwig browser and find what I want faster than I ever did in Live. If someone says make the Bitwig browser like Ableton, then hell yeah I feel protective! :wink:

Now if someone suggests ways to make the Bitwig browser a better version of the Bitwig browser, great.

I mean no offense, but sounds like you need to take an afternoon and re-organize your samples and give them useful folder names. That will likely do more for your searching efficiency than any feature implementation in the browser.
that to me is exactly the kind of slightly fan boy tainted view that a lot of Bitwig Users seem to have and I think it stands in the way of Bitwig. Abletons/FL browser is a standard Windows Explorer/Finder Filesystem browser, this is a standard UX design that used literally everywhere, it's a bit silly that Bitwig can't use such a tried and tested formular, because Ableton uses it as well.

Again, the tagging feature in Bitwig is great, but that doesn't mean that we can't have a standard browser view on top of it.

In the end it's about how much Information you can easily read and how easy and fast you can interact with the interface to get the results you want.

Just because FL is 20x faster when it comes to previewing samples, doesn't mean that Bitwig shouldn't be that fast as well, because then it would be like FL..

KVRAF
7708 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:05 am

I think the view in the sidebar browser (non pop up) is pretty standard and very similar to Live and FL (it was all we had until they also added the POB). The POB is in addition to the standard folder view, not a replacement and as well as adding more functionality it also saves a lot of mouse movement when on big monitors as you are not constantly moving back to one edge of the screen.

The problem with the Windows Explorer/Finder system is that you actually have to physically make folders and move stuff on your hard drive to make (what are often temporary) collections for one song/project. I prefer the Bitwig method as you are basically just 'tagging' things and they show up as collections without havening to rearrange anything. It is also 'smart', it hides duplicates, it just shows just VST3 if you have both VST3 and 2 (assuming you select this) and is thus much better for music than the standard Windows Explorer/Finder.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF
19457 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:37 am

docbot wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:57 am
that to me is exactly the kind of slightly fan boy tainted view that a lot of Bitwig Users seem to have and I think it stands in the way of Bitwig.
2 things...

what we talk about here has no influence on the development of Bitwig. It is just some users have some conversation and will not get in the way of anything.

second, just cause someone has a different opinion, you don't need to start getting personal.

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