Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRer
11 posts since 22 Nov, 2020

Post Sun May 09, 2021 2:00 pm

I left Bitwig because it was time for bed. The next morning I went back to Bitwig.

KVRian
507 posts since 17 Nov, 2015 from Yuma

Post Sun May 09, 2021 3:40 pm

brain__tan wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:00 pm
I left Bitwig because it was time for bed. The next morning I went back to Bitwig.
wtf? you sleep?

KVRAF
3478 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm

anttimaatteri wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:40 pm
brain__tan wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:00 pm
I left Bitwig because it was time for bed. The next morning I went back to Bitwig.
wtf? you sleep?
The need to dream of other DAWs :hihi:
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRist
394 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Mon May 10, 2021 12:47 am

machinesworking wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:52 am

I'd prefer if the pop up Browser was the main browser. I prefer the Apple style column approach to browsing, but I wish the Bitwig version had a few things going for it. It doesn't "remember" the typing you do if you have to change the search focus for instance, this means I'm retyping all the time because I'll start typing as soon as I instantiate it without checking if it's in a previous focus. Plus pop ups allow you to drag a smaller distance in the case of audio files etc.
One thing that I never realized, because I never used it, is how many Design Cues Bitwig took from Cubase. The static Browser, basic panel Layout, Piano Roll Tools and Note behaviour are very much inspired by it. Makes sense since Claes mentioned in the podcast he did recently, that he has been a long time Cubase user.

KVRist
306 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands

Post Sat May 29, 2021 10:44 am

I left Bitwig in 2019 (V2.x?) and went back to Live because of:

1 Better piano roll (and a long lasting bug in bitwig where the notes sound incorrect in the folded view)
2 Midi note chasing
3 Sound/Clip/Kit preview
4 Adjust selected parameters with arrow keys
5 Effortless controller support, Push2
6 Simplistic focus, refined Interaction
7 Excellent factory content

I came back to Bitwig since mid 2020 because of
- the bug in # 1 was fixed
- # 2 was implemented
And after that these advantages started to outweigh #3-7
- Drag and drop between projects
- Disable devices and tracks
- Hide tracks
- Key commands and Browser (every time I work in Ableton I'm disappointed how much I need to do with the mouse)
- Modulator flexibility
- Hybrid tracks
- Bouncing (better than freezing)
- Devices shown mixer/clips view
- Clip/arranger combination
- Better for hardware intergration (CV, clock, external FX/instruments)
- Better sampler (for my work - mostly creating round robin multi samples)
- Type in values

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KVRAF
2432 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun May 30, 2021 5:17 am

M-Prod wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:44 am
(every time I work in Ableton I'm disappointed how much I need to do with the mouse)
despite Push2?

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sun May 30, 2021 9:01 am

I have not yet even come to Bitwig. I'm still kicking tires.

One of my things is freezing tracks. Probably less important these days due to better CPUs, but still an important tool in my box. However, reading the manual, I found this tidbit:
Since Bounce in place deletes your source clip, it is a good practice to copy the clip (perhaps to the Clip Launcher) before using this function.
Why?!?!? Why delete the clip? It should just save it in the clip bin and replace it in the track, allowing you to fish it out later. Or, even better, revert with a couple of clicks. Using just Bounce may be better, but now I've got TWO tracks cluttering up the works!

Am I missing something? (Please tell me I am. :pray:) Is this automatic "deleting" thing a common paradigm in Bitwig? If so, then it's probably coming off the table.

KVRAF
9121 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Sun May 30, 2021 9:15 am

syntonica wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:01 am
I have not yet even come to Bitwig. I'm still kicking tires.

One of my things is freezing tracks. Probably less important these days due to better CPUs, but still an important tool in my box. However, reading the manual, I found this tidbit:
Since Bounce in place deletes your source clip, it is a good practice to copy the clip (perhaps to the Clip Launcher) before using this function.
Why?!?!? Why delete the clip? It should just save it in the clip bin and replace it in the track, allowing you to fish it out later. Or, even better, revert with a couple of clicks. Using just Bounce may be better, but now I've got TWO tracks cluttering up the works!

Am I missing something? (Please tell me I am. :pray:) Is this automatic "deleting" thing a common paradigm in Bitwig? If so, then it's probably coming off the table.
You can bounce midi clips to the same track because the tracks can hold both midi and audio.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sun May 30, 2021 9:23 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:15 am
syntonica wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:01 am
I have not yet even come to Bitwig. I'm still kicking tires.

One of my things is freezing tracks. Probably less important these days due to better CPUs, but still an important tool in my box. However, reading the manual, I found this tidbit:
Since Bounce in place deletes your source clip, it is a good practice to copy the clip (perhaps to the Clip Launcher) before using this function.
Why?!?!? Why delete the clip? It should just save it in the clip bin and replace it in the track, allowing you to fish it out later. Or, even better, revert with a couple of clicks. Using just Bounce may be better, but now I've got TWO tracks cluttering up the works!

Am I missing something? (Please tell me I am. :pray:) Is this automatic "deleting" thing a common paradigm in Bitwig? If so, then it's probably coming off the table.
You can bounce midi clips to the same track because the tracks can hold both midi and audio.
So, it becomes a hybrid track? Does the audio clip take precedence over the MIDI clip? And does it just hide it behind?

If so, then that works for me. :)

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KVRAF
19471 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun May 30, 2021 9:48 am

syntonica wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:23 am

So, it becomes a hybrid track? Does the audio clip take precedence over the MIDI clip? And does it just hide it behind?

If so, then that works for me. :)
It becomes a hybrid track, but the midi clip is not auto-saved when you bounce in place.

If I want to keep a copy of the midi clip and I am in Arrange, I now drag the midi clip to the launcher on the same track which makes a copy, then bounce in place.

KVRAF
3251 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sun May 30, 2021 10:54 am

group tracks can contain standard clips too so bouncing on them also an option
Image
and the inner source track(s) can be deactivated
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sun May 30, 2021 11:20 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:48 am
syntonica wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:23 am

So, it becomes a hybrid track? Does the audio clip take precedence over the MIDI clip? And does it just hide it behind?

If so, then that works for me. :)
It becomes a hybrid track, but the midi clip is not auto-saved when you bounce in place.

If I want to keep a copy of the midi clip and I am in Arrange, I now drag the midi clip to the launcher on the same track which makes a copy, then bounce in place.
Boo!!! Deleting anything without express user permission is a big no-no. Even ProTools keeps everything. And I mean everything.

KVRAF
1725 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Post Sun May 30, 2021 11:28 am

syntonica wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:20 am


Boo!!! Deleting anything without express user permission is a big no-no. Even ProTools keeps everything. And I mean everything.

Try relaxing, maybe?

If you choose to convert -- that is, bounce -- a MIDI clip to an audio clip, then yeah, you are changing it from one to the other. You're thinking in terms of 'deletion' when everyone else is thinking in terms of "I want this to be audio now." That is, after all, the entire point of Bounce functionality: to take something that is not audio, and make it audio. Bitwig makes this process even more fluid and flexible because it doesn't (like most daws) create a whole new track in your mix and stick the bounce on that track -- thanks to hybrid tracks, the converted audio clip just sits where it always was, running through the same FX chain, same mix settings, etc. That's a WIN, not a loss. Less clutter of new tracks, less messing with multiple / duplicate FX chains, etc etc. Hybrid tracks are a beautiful thing!

Now, since you are so desperate to not 'lose / delete' your original MIDI clip, just hit CMD+D and duplicate the thing before you bounce it. Now you have both. Is that really worth crying over like this?
https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp.com/ - Noir-themed Dark Jazz
https://tvhwy.bandcamp.com/releases - classic IDM by TV HWY
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sun May 30, 2021 11:52 am

mholloway wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:28 am


Try relaxing, maybe?
I'm perfectly calm! :hyper:
If you choose to convert -- that is, bounce -- a MIDI clip to an audio clip, then yeah, you are changing it from one to the other. You're thinking in terms of 'deletion' when everyone else is thinking in terms of "I want this to be audio now." That is, after all, the entire point of Bounce functionality: to take something that is not audio, and make it audio. Bitwig makes this process even more fluid and flexible because it doesn't (like most daws) create a whole new track in your mix and stick the bounce on that track -- thanks to hybrid tracks, the converted audio clip just sits where it always was, running through the same FX chain, same mix settings, etc. That's a WIN, not a loss. Less clutter of new tracks, less messing with multiple / duplicate FX chains, etc etc. Hybrid tracks are a beautiful thing!

Now, since you are so desperate to not 'lose / delete' your original MIDI clip, just hit CMD+D and duplicate the thing before you bounce it. Now you have both. Is that really worth crying over like this?
When I started out in Logic, back when PPC dinosaurs roamed the earth, to freeze, I would:
Solo the track.
Disable any effects.
Bounce the clip to audio.
Tuck the MIDI clip away on another unused track.
Put the bounce in its place.
Re-enable the effects.
Un-solo the track.
Needless to say, it was a lot of work, but I'd get half my CPU back, and I was still able to restore the MIDI clip if I had to make changes.

Then they added the magic freeze button. But it froze the whole track, including the effects. So, back to square one.

When I have all the effects and automation in place, then I bounce just the VIs to audio, replacing all the MIDI. Then I can get down to some serious mixing. Even then, I still want those MIDI clips. I have piles of them in my old projects. As you can see, I have a very specific way of working.

I like the idea of being able to freeze, pre-fx, in place, but I also want to be able to restore the original MIDI with ease.

Why do I need to freeze? Well, there are some Omnisphere patches that currently murder my CPU with one note. My CPU, with both cores, is about as fast as a single M1 core, so freezing may still be necessary in the future.

I can live with how it is, but still, deleting anything automatically is just bad. Period. Even a little check box there to Save MIDI Clip would be most welcome.

Is it worth crying over? No, but it is well worth raging about it anonymously on a web forum! :hihi:

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KVRAF
9432 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun May 30, 2021 12:06 pm

Hopefully when MIDI comping gets added, Bitwig will simply send the MIDI clip to comp lane below and put audio on the top lane.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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