Why you left Bitwig?

[roman.i]

Left Bitwig to Ableton, then to DAWless
DAWless is the best.

[antic604]

Live 11 'Suite' devices aren't basic, the (AAS) instruments, fx (like the new hybrid reverb), new MAX stuff and bundled sound packs are absolutely top notch. Probably the reason (along with PUSH 2 integration) I seem to boot up Live more than Bitwig, just so much great content to explore.

'EQ+ will likely be fixed'....its been out a long time and we have had a lot of updates (including 4!) without it being fixed...Bigwigs 'update plan' model puts them under a lot of pressure to keep putting new stuff out, sometimes that can be detrimental to finishing of the details I think.

Ok, maybe Live's devices are a bit more feature-rich than Bitwig's, but are still pretty basic compared to typical VST instrument or effect. But it's weird someone would even try - not to mention switch to - Bitwig without that DIY mindset, so I can't see how is that a drawback? It rather points to uninformed choice than to anything else

EQ+ was only released in 3.2 and users started to be vocal about EQ+ latency only in last 2-3 months, so it's too early to tell they won't ever fix it. It was never bothering me and even when I noticed it in one of projects, I couldn't replicate it in empty project that I was meaning to send to support. So it only rears its head in very specific cases (I mean it's always there, but rarely audible). And in the meantime there's Eq2 and Eq5 that don't have that issue.

[hitherepeople]

In my time since the release of version 4 of Studio One, there have been more updates than I can count!

Bitwig is the slowest developer I know. Plus they are a little too serious IMHO. I left back at version two.

[sQeetz]

If I may ask, what was the bug?

When a plugin window is open (and focussed) the mouse pointer icon changes to the ones that would be shown if the plugin wasn't there.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/whi8nnx3nav00 ... 1.mov?dl=0

Happens with all plugins. I thought that the update with M1 support could maybe fix it, but it didn't...
I know it's kinda minor, but it bugs me.

This is Mac-only? Because then, somebody is not respecting the tracking areas that should be set up by both the host and the plugin maker of the focused window. The focused window should be catching all the mouse events and not passing them on to the host to respond to, i.e. changing the cursor pointer to follow what's underneath.

It happens with *all* plugins (and I have quite a few from a couple of companies) and only in Bitwig. Bitwig Support said it is "due to the way the plugin hosting and window handling works between Bitwig Studio and macOS". And that there is nothing they could/would do about it... so

Sounds like a simple bug to me to fix. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's what I thought, too.

[SLiC]

Ok, maybe Live's devices are a bit more feature-rich than Bitwig's, but are still pretty basic compared to typical VST instrument or effect.

Its not so much that they are 'feature-rich', they simply sound better. You have Cryonic Glue, almost all of the AAS synth engines and resonator Fx etc in an easy to use rack format (and pre-mapped on PUSH with a lovely display so you dont have to look at a computer screen) Its more continent to use the built stuff (beacuse of PUSH) and the sound is in my opinion the same level as commercial VSTs (as it basilcay is a suite of AAS VSTs built in!)

[machinesworking]

Ok, maybe Live's devices are a bit more feature-rich than Bitwig's, but are still pretty basic compared to typical VST instrument or effect.

Its not so much that they are 'feature-rich', they simply sound better. You have Cryonic Glue, almost all of the AAS synth engines and resonator Fx etc in an easy to use rack format (and pre-mapped on PUSH with a lovely display so you dont have to look at a computer screen) Its more continent to use the built stuff (beacuse of PUSH) and the sound is in my opinion the same level as commercial VSTs (as it basilcay is a suite of AAS VSTs built in!)

I’m probably switching back myself, but not for the built in AAS stuff. I have the AAS suite that I got before Ableton added in the cut down versions. <- therein lies the problem for me, the AAS versions have all the parameters, the Suite versions miss quite a few things and at this point are versions behind.

Compatibility with collaborators and Jitter are the big reasons, but I’m not selling Bitwig just because Suite has cool video features and my music partners are glued to Live. It’s still IMO incredibly fun to write in, maybe eventually if I end up in a permanent writing situation with my friend, but not anytime soon. I have a feeling most of 4s features are just around the corner.

[EnGee]

I haven't noticed this before! Is it a Mac only bug? I'll give it try on Linux/Windows and see.

I think it's Mac only. Don't know if it also happens with Intel Macs, though.

Yes, it happens with all plugins, but... It is only if the plugin window is not active! When the Plugin windows is active, it is "normal". Actually, it might be good because it tells me that the window is not active

From other hand, I thought also to move into Ableton Live, but before I sell anything this time, I delved into doing a full song (still not full of course!) and I've tried happily Live midi editing (at first), then I was shocked that there is no midi not split! There is no way to split a note?! Come on Ableton!!
So, I returned to Bitwig, because when you work in midi editing mainly, it is not enough just to test few basic things. You need to do a full scale song and with usage you discover what's best for you.

I still have Live. I won't sell it just for that, but my main DAW actually now is Cubase then my second is Bitwig. Every other DAW has its advantages and disadvantages. Weighing among all, it was Cubase what I feel mostly comfortable with and I don't have to relearn any shortcuts (that I use a lot together with the mouse for editing).

Anyway, Bitwig is my first DAW on Linux! I have ready complete environment just in case I found myself using only Linux, but due to work (can't be without Windows unfortunately), I have to use Windows first, then Linux, then OS 11 (and in this case Bitwig is a king for working without any special setup in all those platforms).

[MuzikFreq]

Mainly left because the odd way everything works is more for experimental and too basic. Requires nesting of plugins to do a simple job.
EQ+ which is amazing is also dumb on why they force latency for each instance used

How is that any different in Live? Its native devices are also mostly basic and you need to layer & nest stuff in Instrument/FX Racks to get something equivalent to a basic VST)?

Also, EQ+ will likely be fixed whereas Live's EQ8 is years behind it in terms of workflow. If you can work with EQ8, you could've worked with Bitwig's EQ5 until EQ+ is fixed.

Both DAWs are awesome so it's not like you made a mistake switching, but your rationale for switching is weird

There is also just the general workflow and also having Max4live which has a bunch of really nice tools to use. I tried the grid and just get lost too easily

[antic604]

Its not so much that they are 'feature-rich', they simply sound better...

Reading your post from the last couple of days you seem to be pretty disillusioned with Bitwig

Not saying you're wrong, just noticing

[antic604]

There is also just the general workflow and also having Max4live which has a bunch of really nice tools to use. I tried the grid and just get lost too easily

As I said, you could've chosen a lot worse than Live (*cough* Reaper or FL *cough*), but Live isn't perfect either - from poor performance, through crashes (especially with M4L) to outdated / limiting design choices it's not smooth sailing moving there from Bitwig.

[sQeetz]

I haven't noticed this before! Is it a Mac only bug? I'll give it try on Linux/Windows and see.

I think it's Mac only. Don't know if it also happens with Intel Macs, though.

Yes, it happens with all plugins, but... It is only if the plugin window is not active! When the Plugin windows is active, it is "normal". Actually, it might be good because it tells me that the window is not active

It wouldn't bother me that much if that was the case. If you watch the small clip I posted a few posts ago, you can see that I click on the plugin (to make it active) click on a knob and move it a little bit and still the mouse pointer icon changes to whatever is beneath the plugin window when hovering around the plugin window.

[hitherepeople]

There is also just the general workflow and also having Max4live which has a bunch of really nice tools to use. I tried the grid and just get lost too easily

As I said, you could've chosen a lot worse than Live (*cough* Reaper or FL *cough*), but Live isn't perfect either - from poor performance, through crashes (especially with M4L) to outdated / limiting design choices it's not smooth sailing moving there from Bitwig.

Yeah, I had Suite way back in the day and M4L was awful. Crash crash crash. Performance is something they should really take more seriously.

[SLiC]

Its not so much that they are 'feature-rich', they simply sound better...

Reading your post from the last couple of days you seem to be pretty disillusioned with Bitwig

Not saying you're wrong, just noticing

Well, I’ll confess I was expecting more from V4, but it is what it is…Bitwig does a lot of things very well but I so do other DAWS and the DAW I pick to open depends on what I am doing…I open Live to use PUSH, Reason to use the rack with a nice simple sequencer, Studio One if I am recording a lot of instruments/groups…doing more complicated editing and mixing..Bitwig is my go to for modular (cv) stuff, experimental, sound design…FL studio for the instruments and weirdness (still trying to work it out, the all plug in edition is like a word of its own ) I like them all but if I could only have one DAW it would be Studio One (with Reason Rack obviously )

[MuzikFreq]

There is also just the general workflow and also having Max4live which has a bunch of really nice tools to use. I tried the grid and just get lost too easily

As I said, you could've chosen a lot worse than Live (*cough* Reaper or FL *cough*), but Live isn't perfect either - from poor performance, through crashes (especially with M4L) to outdated / limiting design choices it's not smooth sailing moving there from Bitwig.

I actually started on FL so I already have it

[pdxindy]

Live 11 'Suite' devices aren't basic, the (AAS) instruments, fx (like the new hybrid reverb), new MAX stuff and bundled sound packs are absolutely top notch. Probably the reason (along with PUSH 2 integration) I seem to boot up Live more than Bitwig, just so much great content to explore.

That statement shows your motivation. You boot up your DAW so you have lots of stuff to explore. Nothing wrong with that, but just pointing out that you are speaking from that interest. I boot up my DAW to make music.

I use some VST's, some of the included Bitwig instruments and devices, some hardware, my Linnstrument and the record button and I'm a happy camper.