Why you left Ableton?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRAF
7431 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:41 am

antic604 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:35 am
EnGee wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:32 am
...Anyway, I can't promise that this is the only DAW I will use, but I think I'm getting there! I'm getting there! :hihi:
Image
Nah! It is only in your head ;)
Mostly: Cubase 11 Pro, Bitwig Studio 4, RP Explorer 6, NI K12, Arturia VC7 + SQ80 V, Keylab 49 MK ii, MODX 6, KK M32 and ATOM

KVRist
75 posts since 6 May, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:05 am

I am not leaving yet, but I have something to say:

Ableton Live was primarily build to play Live. What developers did well.
But with time - community has started using Ableton like traditional DAW like Protools, Logic, etc,etc.
If they don't catch up with improving arrangement View, more people will leave in the future.

Also they should implement some kind of CPU saving mode, when Live will no process everything on the fly and save some resources. ( at least that's how I heard it, that is why is Ableton more CPU demanding)

But what is worst Ableton starting losing with modulations. If you want to do some serious modulations you must use MAX devices, which I found pretty unstable, and therefore I don't use them anymore ….

I am still on Ableton 10, because I heard very bad stuff about 11 ( CPU taxing).

Also I noticed they don't listen to the community too much, on the Beta forums are plenty of issues and improvement suggestion's which are not heard. Instead they adding thing to attracts new users which are useless IMO.

For example there is annoying Pitch bend bug for like 10 years, and you can not edit multiple fades at once.... they add some multiple clip editing functions in Ableton 11 but..... there are just few.

On other side, after you get used to Ableton, you become extremely fast at producing and laying down ideas., that is why I am still using it.

User avatar
KVRAF
9995 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:20 am

EnGee wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:41 am
Nah! It is only in your head ;)
Yeah, I agree FL shouldn't be on the podium.

Here, I've fixed it :roll:

Distracted-Boyfriend.jpg
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Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
KVRAF
7431 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:23 am

V0rtex wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:05 am
I am not leaving yet, but I have something to say:

Ableton Live was primarily build to play Live. What developers did well.
But with time - community has started using Ableton like traditional DAW like Protools, Logic, etc,etc.
If they don't catch up with improving arrangement View, more people will leave in the future.

Also they should implement some kind of CPU saving mode, when Live will no process everything on the fly and save some resources. ( at least that's how I heard it, that is why is Ableton more CPU demanding)

But what is worst Ableton starting losing with modulations. If you want to do some serious modulations you must use MAX devices, which I found pretty unstable, and therefore I don't use them anymore ….

I am still on Ableton 10, because I heard very bad stuff about 11 ( CPU taxing).

Also I noticed they don't listen to the community too much, on the Beta forums are plenty of issues and improvement suggestion's which are not heard. Instead they adding thing to attracts new users which are useless IMO.

For example there is annoying Pitch bend bug for like 10 years, and you can not edit multiple fades at once.... they add some multiple clip editing functions in Ableton 11 but..... there are just few.

On other side, after you get used to Ableton, you become extremely fast at producing and laying down ideas., that is why I am still using it.
I think more and more users are using Ableton Live as a Linear DAW with the session view as idea sketch. Of course it has the "Live" mode already, so it has many uses and workflow. Pick what you want!

Live 10 is more stable with CPU than Live 11 in my Windows, but if you have a good CPU and you are not using many or high demanding plugins, then it is ok. In Mac M1 under Rosetta, it is ok, not as good as other DAWs, but I don't have a problem. Anyway, I see no big benefits in using 11 over 10 really! So, you might be good till they improve the CPU usage.

You are right. Ableton Live has a fast workflow and once you get used to it, it is hard to return to other DAWs. It has of course several negative points and Yes, it would be wonderful if they implement a separate mode for production other than performing to save resources.

Well, every DAW has advantages and disadvantages. Really!. Unless something really is a showstopper, I'm not leaving it! I see Live has the best balance in everything. The best DAW in supported hardware! Except Nektar, all the hardware keyboards and controllers especially make sure that Live is supported! So, really the hardware support is perfect with Live :)
Mostly: Cubase 11 Pro, Bitwig Studio 4, RP Explorer 6, NI K12, Arturia VC7 + SQ80 V, Keylab 49 MK ii, MODX 6, KK M32 and ATOM

KVRAF
7935 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:38 am

The best DAW in supported hardware - This!

Live + PUSH2 is a different paradigm to any other DAW, Only Maschine gets close for a 'hardware feel' with software and that is far more limited.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

User avatar
KVRAF
19901 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:04 am

SLiC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:38 am
The best DAW in supported hardware - This!

Live + PUSH2 is a different paradigm to any other DAW, Only Maschine gets close for a 'hardware feel' with software and that is far more limited.
Yeah, Live is unmatched for controller support. Live + Push is not great for people who want to work in the linear timeline.

When I bought my Linnstrument, Push ended up fading away cause I was not using it for the pads anymore. It took up too much space and still required enough mouse/screen use that over time I just ended up back on the mouse and screen.

My favorite DAW + controller combo is Logic plus Logic Remote on my iPad.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am

I looked into Linnstrument but the Push Live combo is just phenomenal and I will hold on for little more just in case Push 3 is on their timetable.

MPE is fun but not even 20% of general music production for me.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRAF
7935 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:54 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:04 am
SLiC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:38 am
The best DAW in supported hardware - This!

Live + PUSH2 is a different paradigm to any other DAW, Only Maschine gets close for a 'hardware feel' with software and that is far more limited.
Yeah, Live is unmatched for controller support. Live + Push is not great for people who want to work in the linear timeline.
I agree, not much use for linear stuff, they could improve that (at least use the display, 8 knobs and 16 buttons for useful stuff…) but it’s still really geared for steps and clips.

Personally I use it as sort of an Octotrack replacement (I sold my OT and bought PUSH!) it a great live looper (foot pedal to record next clip), step sequencer and drum sequencer, especially now you have direct access to the probability stuff, feels more Elektron!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

User avatar
KVRAF
19901 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:00 am

liquidsound wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am
I looked into Linnstrument but the Push Live combo is just phenomenal and I will hold on for little more just in case Push 3 is on their timetable.

MPE is fun but not even 20% of general music production for me.
I use the Linnstrument maybe 70% of the time... even for mono sounds, I love the subtle pitch variations... whether that is vibrato or leaving pitch quantization off and then each note might be a little off pitch... it can sound organic and lovely.

When using arpeggiated sounds, the Linnstrument and MPE adds so much nuance and playability.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:52 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:00 am
liquidsound wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am
I looked into Linnstrument but the Push Live combo is just phenomenal and I will hold on for little more just in case Push 3 is on their timetable.

MPE is fun but not even 20% of general music production for me.
I use the Linnstrument maybe 70% of the time... even for mono sounds, I love the subtle pitch variations... whether that is vibrato or leaving pitch quantization off and then each note might be a little off pitch... it can sound organic and lovely.

When using arpeggiated sounds, the Linnstrument and MPE adds so much nuance and playability.
I know that from you cool samples you post here and there.
I’m more a piano player and MPE is overdoing it for me. I haven’t use it yet in ether DAW.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRAF
7935 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:24 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:00 am
liquidsound wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am
I looked into Linnstrument but the Push Live combo is just phenomenal and I will hold on for little more just in case Push 3 is on their timetable.

MPE is fun but not even 20% of general music production for me.
I use the Linnstrument maybe 70% of the time... even for mono sounds, I love the subtle pitch variations... whether that is vibrato or leaving pitch quantization off and then each note might be a little off pitch... it can sound organic and lovely.

When using arpeggiated sounds, the Linnstrument and MPE adds so much nuance and playability.
A bit OT, but did you see the new MPE Arp on the Osmose?

https://youtu.be/sOgBbSZae-k
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

User avatar
KVRAF
19901 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am

liquidsound wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:52 am
I know that from you cool samples you post here and there.
I’m more a piano player and MPE is overdoing it for me. I haven’t use it yet in ether DAW.
This is why it is so valuable that there are different tools that suit our different interests :)

I'm looking forward to the Osmose cause it will have piano (like) keys instead of the pad approach of the Linnstrument. Sometimes I just like playing keys, so I think they will complement each other well.
Last edited by pdxindy on Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
KVRAF
19901 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:36 am

SLiC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:24 am
A bit OT, but did you see the new MPE Arp on the Osmose?
Yeah, I saw that video... looks interesting for sure, but I was not as immediately impressed by the demo as I was by the pressure weighted portamento video. But maybe once I am using it I will love it! I have been finding lots of satisfying and nuanced results with MPE and the Bitwig Arp. Of course I will be comparing the two approaches :tu:

KVRAF
7935 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:38 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am
I'm looking forward to the Osmose cause it will have piano (like) keys instead of the pad approach of the Linnstrument. Sometimes I just like playing keys, so I think they will complement each other well.
Ditto- I am hoping they stay on track now and it comes for Xmas, talk about delayed gratification!
It looks like that unit is the 'final' production model as it has the angled pitch and mod wheels...
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRist
274 posts since 30 Aug, 2002

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 am

V0rtex wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:05 am
I am not leaving yet, but I have something to say:

Ableton Live was primarily build to play Live. What developers did well.
But with time - community has started using Ableton like traditional DAW like Protools, Logic, etc,etc.
If they don't catch up with improving arrangement View, more people will leave in the future.

Also they should implement some kind of CPU saving mode, when Live will no process everything on the fly and save some resources. ( at least that's how I heard it, that is why is Ableton more CPU demanding)

But what is worst Ableton starting losing with modulations. If you want to do some serious modulations you must use MAX devices, which I found pretty unstable, and therefore I don't use them anymore ….

I am still on Ableton 10, because I heard very bad stuff about 11 ( CPU taxing).

Also I noticed they don't listen to the community too much, on the Beta forums are plenty of issues and improvement suggestion's which are not heard. Instead they adding thing to attracts new users which are useless IMO.

For example there is annoying Pitch bend bug for like 10 years, and you can not edit multiple fades at once.... they add some multiple clip editing functions in Ableton 11 but..... there are just few.

On other side, after you get used to Ableton, you become extremely fast at producing and laying down ideas., that is why I am still using it.
Ableton has always been used as a traditional daw. I think the majority of users are treating it as such.
I5-8600K, Focusrite Scarlet Solo v2, Ubuntu 19.04, Bitwig.

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