Studio One future?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
apoclypse
KVRist
277 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:27 pm

andypryce wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:27 am
apoclypse wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:52 am
5Lives wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:08 am
Hoping for articulation maps and some UI cleanup / finessing. Still the ugliest DAW UI out there (besides Reaper of course but that’s a given). Performance with big templates needs to be improved as well.

People keep saying that but I actually think it's quite nice. It's functional, very readable and straightforward. Very little fluff. I've liked S1's UI since 2.x.
GUI is OKish for me. But needs a clean up for sure. Eventually it started to get crowded with each big number update with added functions. For me especially the colors needs an update. I prefer Logic's or Cubase's custom color palettes made by users. Easier on the eye and easier to distinguish which region/track is selected and which not. Hope for a color editor or more choices for V5
I like S1's colors. They are more pastel like which is my preference versus Logic. There could be more color options but since I pretty much use the same colors for things like bass (red), drums (Blue/Purple), vocals (yellow), guitars (orange), synths (green) etc. I'm pretty much all set in my workflow. Every DAW has those colors.
Studio One 4.6 // Bitwig 3.0.3 // Logic Pro X 10.5 // Ableton 10 // Reason 9.5 // MPC // Force

chk071
KVRAF
24103 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:30 pm

4damind wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:07 pm
Studio One is from the former Steinberg employees Wolfgang Kundrus and Matthias Juwan. Therefore I think the idea behind Studio One was to create a better Cubase.
Kundrus has left Presonus and so the leading head is gone. On the other side, Cubase has further developed over the last 10 years and the gap has become wider...

I think that Studio One will remain a niche product. Yes, there are some well-known users like ATB but S1 is not as popular as Ableton, Cubase or Logic. Probably there are even more Bitwig users than S1 users by now.
I'm sure S1 is not as well known as those, and not as widely used. I don't think it's the niche product it once has been either, though. I'm sure it's bigger than Bitwig.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

apoclypse
KVRist
277 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:39 pm

4damind wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:07 pm
Studio One is from the former Steinberg employees Wolfgang Kundrus and Matthias Juwan. Therefore I think the idea behind Studio One was to create a better Cubase.
Kundrus has left Presonus and so the leading head is gone. On the other side, Cubase has further developed over the last 10 years and the gap has become wider...

I think that Studio One will remain a niche product. Yes, there are some well-known users like ATB but S1 is not as popular as Ableton, Cubase or Logic. Probably there are even more Bitwig users than S1 users by now.
LOL. Yeah I don't think so. Bitwig is not as popular as Bitwig users think it is. It's extremely niche. Studio One has been gaining traction with the ProTools crowd for a while. It may never be as big as Logic, Cubase, Ableton in the production world but it doesn't really have to be. It's an alternative to those DAWs. As frustrating as it is sometimes (due to all the bugs), it still is one of the better designed DAWs out there imo. It just works, very little menu diving, or weird quirky unexpected behavior when doing things.
Studio One 4.6 // Bitwig 3.0.3 // Logic Pro X 10.5 // Ableton 10 // Reason 9.5 // MPC // Force

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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
4015 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Is there a way to highlight 4-8-16 bars on the playlist more more distinctly? Increasing contrast does so for all bar lines.
High Quality Soundsets for Lush-101 | Hive | Electra 2 | Diversion | Halion | Largo | Rapid | Dune II | Thorn | and more.

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BezO
KVRist
247 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:03 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 am
Just drag the inserts in the mixer console up / down (or tabs right / left in the device chain window) to change the order. Much more convenient than having to plan ahead to leave gaps. Also, consider how many steps - at least in Cubase - you need to do to add 3 inserts when you only left one slot available? That's a ridiculous complaint, frankly...
I know how to change order. That's not my issue.

We just work differently. You find gaps inconvenient, I find them quite convenient. No planning necessary. In Logic, and prior in Pro Tools, All my corrective EQs were in slot 1, 1st series of compression slot 2, and so on, all done in my templates. It makes it much easier to deactivate all 2nd series compression, for example. Without slots, effect types can't be lined up & activated/deactivated in a way I do.

Think about it this way, if you do this. Activate/deactivate an effect that's being bused to, like a reverb, to hear how a mix sounds with & without it. I do that sometimes with inserted effects. But it can't be done without each effect type being on the same line. I don't do serial compression on all tracks, for example. So I can't activate/deactivate 2nd series compression on all relative drum tracks because that line of effects won't all be compression.

Certainly not ridiculous because you don't do this.

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 am
I'm pretty sure you just Shift+select multiple tracks and you can perform actions on the same plugin in many channels (e.g. bypass a compressor). You can also use Groups for that.
OK, either I wasn't clear or you're not understanding. I know how to activate & deactivate plugins across multiple tracks. See my example above.

And yes, this could be accomplished with groups, but I'd need a ridiculous amount of them. And the extra step of turning them off & on wouldn't be necessary if effect slots were a thing. What you're suggesting is not nearly as efficient for my workflow as what I'm wishing for.

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 am
So you have no idea how to use it, but you're certain it "doesn't seem slick and feature rich"? That doesn't add up...
Bruh! I said I only toyed with it and that may be why. I have similar experience with both and one seems better. What's not adding up?

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:36 am
Interesting. I found Marcus' paid tutorial Studio One 4 Explained to be unprepared, very chaotic & messy in comparison to equivalent tutorials for Cubase Pro 10 and Reason 10 (by other tutor, admittedly).
I've not watched any of his paid tutorials, only the free ones on YT. And I pick through them for specifically what I'm looking for, so I've likely not seen all of them. The tuts I've watched of his were quick & to the point.

antic604 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:36 am
And Quanta is a drama queen - I couldn't believe the rant he went on after I commented how he could've used a better example for the technique he presented in one of the recent videos after he came back to YT.

Sure, both are knowledgeable but that doesn't mean they can pass that knowledge well.
Same here, I've only picked through for what I've needed. They've all been straight & to the point. I've saved much fewer of his than Marcus' though.
The groove baby, the groove...

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BezO
KVRist
247 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:06 pm

chk071 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:38 am
BezO wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:29 am
chk071 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:06 am
Probably his laid back sloppy American style way of presenting things.

On contrast, Gregor seems typical German. :D And, yeah, I also prefer that. More on point, less useless stuff, more content.
Please, let's not blame that on him being American.
Blame? Who blamed anyone for anything?

Confused.
Laid back, sloppy American style? Maybe I'm confused, but it sounds like you are attributing him being laid back & sloppy to an American style of doing things. Please explain.
The groove baby, the groove...

chk071
KVRAF
24103 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:10 pm

I just said that I don't like that kind of typical American infotainment, and prefer a more serious approach. OK for you, or do I need to further explain myself? I don't blame him for doing it, and I don't blame him for being American. Relax.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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BezO
KVRist
247 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:15 pm

apoclypse wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:27 pm
I like S1's colors. They are more pastel like which is my preference versus Logic. There could be more color options but since I pretty much use the same colors for things like bass (red), drums (Blue/Purple), vocals (yellow), guitars (orange), synths (green) etc. I'm pretty much all set in my workflow. Every DAW has those colors.
At 1st, I liked that pastel colors. But on anything other than the lighter shade for the overall look (I forget the name of the setting), similar track/console colors are hard to distinguish. I've finally spaced out the colors enough to get a noticeable difference. Unfortunately, I've yet to set up my orchestral template which will have twice as many tracks. I anticipate running out of distinguishable colors.

And I don't get the color organization. Why not a color wheel or stick going from warm to cool like every other DAW? Colors are limited, so finding what you want is not hard, but the lack of a standard color wheel is an odd choice.
The groove baby, the groove...

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BezO
KVRist
247 posts since 19 Jul, 2005

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:28 pm

chk071 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:10 pm
I just said that I don't like that kind of typical American infotainment, and prefer a more serious approach. OK for you, or do I need to further explain myself? I don't blame him for doing it, and I don't blame him for being American. Relax.
What the hell is going on in here? I'm quite relaxed, but having a very tough time in this thread I see.

I wasn't saying you blamed HIM for anything. I was saying don't blame his laid back, sloppy approach on him BEING AMERICAN. And after you restating it, I think that's exactly what you're doing. As an American, I find nothing "typically American" about sloppy, laid back deliveries.
The groove baby, the groove...

chk071
KVRAF
24103 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:34 pm

I think his way of infotaining is pretty American. You seem to see some kind of stereotyping here, which is not happening. Volksmusik is also typical German. Does that mean that every German is a Volksmusik fan, or someone who would perform Volksmusik? No. So relax.

"What the hell is going on here." Exactly. Ask yourself.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

andypryce
KVRist
280 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm

4damind wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:07 pm
Studio One is from the former Steinberg employees Wolfgang Kundrus and Matthias Juwan. Therefore I think the idea behind Studio One was to create a better Cubase.
Kundrus has left Presonus and so the leading head is gone. On the other side, Cubase has further developed over the last 10 years and the gap has become wider...

I think that Studio One will remain a niche product. Yes, there are some well-known users like ATB but S1 is not as popular as Ableton, Cubase or Logic. Probably there are even more Bitwig users than S1 users by now.
Yes S1 might be missing some features or be less popular but some features it has for workflow and smart fast ways of doing things makes one wonder how come all those other more popular DAWs do not have those by now. S1's power lies in the little details of that workflow which I prefer to more feature driven ones. One really needs to dig into it to see it's workflow power. Not by feature comparison. I have good experience with almost all the big ones and for most of the parallel features S1 takes the shortest time from A to B.

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4damind
KVRAF
5036 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:22 pm

andypryce wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm
Yes S1 might be missing some features or be less popular but some features it has for workflow and smart fast ways of doing things makes one wonder how come all those other more popular DAWs do not have those by now. S1's power lies in the little details of that workflow which I prefer to more feature driven ones. One really needs to dig into it to see it's workflow power. Not by feature comparison. I have good experience with almost all the big ones and for most of the parallel features S1 takes the shortest time from A to B.
Yes, but the question will be whether this is enough to increase the user base in the future? I had tested S1 and it has without doubt some very interesting features (features that Cubase didn't have before). But today it's not so much different from Cubase or Logic (even "ARA" is now available in Cubase)

The question was about the future of S1 and to be honest I see it rather in a small niche. Users who are unhappy with Cubase or Logic but don't like Ableton Life or Bitwig.

chk071
KVRAF
24103 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:33 pm

I can only speak for myself, but, as someone who used to own and like Cubase, I often felt like it was clunky, requiring a lot of clicks, there was "dead wood", like the generic remote thing, and often several ways to do the same thing. And, I really don't like the development of the GUI. While version 5 looked great, now, the GUI has a touch of cartoon. Also, Cubase actually implemented a couple of things which Studio One has, and made life easier in it. S1 also feels more streamlined, and requires less clicks. For me, and probably also for others who use Studio One, it offers a similar workflow as Cubase, but feels more fresh, less clunky, and more straight forward.

I could very well imagine working with Cubase as well though, it's a nice program. What I don't like though is the rapid way they shoot out paid versions. Sure, noone is forced to upgrade, but, TBH, it often feels like they force features into the new features, just to sell a new version. I respect and accept that companies have to get money in, and, I'm glad that Steinberg is doing well, I just don't think it's the right model for me. Actually, I'm a bit scared that Presonus goes in a similar direction with Studio One. I don't really need dozens of new features, I rather have a refined, well thought out, and usable application.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Trancit
KVRAF
2742 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:19 pm

I quite like Studio One but I have to admit that a few things aren´t implemented the way I would like...

- I don´t like at all that silly auto numbering for plugins of many vendors i.e. FabFilter or Melda...
Every new instance of the same plugin (no matter on which track...the same or another) gets a new number e.g "Fabfilter Pro-Q 3" for the first instance... next instance is named "Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 2"...
If you know duplicate this track complete the instance on the duplicated track is named
"Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 2 2" ... if you duplicate this track you´ve got "Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 2 2 2"

If you on the other hand copy an instance from one track to another it´s keeping the original name!!

If you try to rename an "Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 2 2" instance on a seperate track to the original "Fabfilter Pro-Q 3" it doesn´t let you and tells you this wouldn´t be possible as an existing instance would be already there... yes it is but 1. on a complete different track and 2. why can I have 10 Presonus "Pro EQ" instances on the same track with the same name???

For me this is a silly bug but Presonus says it wouldn´t be and there is a FR needed for requesting a different behaviour...

- the looks and the behaviour of parts of an folder track... apart that this is already the most ugly implementation I´ve ever seen in software , "content preview" gets smaller and smaller till it disappears completely and leaves you with a blank part

Folders in Studio One with always the same content: 10 audio tracks
.
S1Folder.jpg
.
Bitwig against that is a pure beauty:
.
Bitwig.jpg
.
- no range tool in the music editor

- 2 tracks with a hidden one inbetween... selecting and duplicating an event on both visible results in having the hidden one selected and duplicated too... wtf!!

- many bugs with automation and the scratch pad

- bad timestretch for drums and no resample/tape style stretch mode

- no chance to get trigger notes for sliced drum loops dragged to Impact or Sample One

- Macro knobs cannot be automated... automate the "macroed" parameters instead... wtf!!

- Adaptive snap works much to fine... even in this zoom level the part snaps to 1/8th:
.
Snap.jpg
.
- Silly use of space on 1080p monitor and event parameters... i.e. no way to adjust the event volume by numbers without dragging the event box up... but lots of space for track notes... wtf!!! what do you use more often... the event parameters or the silly track notes???
.
Volume.jpg
.
- Convert part to pattern auto quantizes your midi... even if there is a delay parameter available for the stepsequencer S1 doesn´t make use of it and hard quantizes all "not-on-grid" notes to the nex 16th and makes you loosing your timing...
Again Presonus says this wouldn´t be a bug and needs to be requested as a new feature...

- imho inconsistend behaviour for deleting... every single bit needs a seperate shortcut if even possible...
In all other DAWs I know: "delete" deletes the selected bit... select a track > deletes the track... select a plugin... deletes the plugin... etc... in S1, tracks need a seperate shortcut as much other as well, fx and instruments cannot be deleted by shortcut ...

- Browser search function shows hidden plugins... what for do I hide them???

Should be enough for the first part... :D
I wished Presonus would stop to throw in more and more content and would finetune all a bit...
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Jim Rosebrook
KVRist
63 posts since 6 Mar, 2012 from Chillicothe, Ohio

Re: Studio One future?

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:25 pm

4damind wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:22 pm
The question was about the future of S1 and to be honest I see it rather in a small niche. Users who are unhappy with Cubase or Logic but don't like Ableton Life or Bitwig.
I strongly disagree with this assessment.

No research into hard numbers... but I suspect that S1 will surpass many other DAWs in user base and probably already has.

Far more than a small niche already.

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