Reaper and Bitwig.

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:57 am

Yes I have explained, quite clearly. & I thanked you for answering my original question.

It wasn't my intention to antagonise you or insult you, and I apologise if I have.

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:08 am

The only thing I want is the ability to accurately enter automation values for soft instruments 1 to 128 or 0 to 127.

I didn't realise that I should only start threads when I want something.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5016 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:11 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:28 am
I've already explained
No, you didn't. You only explained what you want from us, but not from the DAW in terms of how you want it to change your workflow or add features. For all I know you're looking for a tracker like Renoise, because "computer programmers" used to use hexadecimal numbers a lot in the past... You've not even mentioned the DAW you're using right now, so that we could - based on that - offer some comparison of how Reaper and/or Bitwig differ.

And sure, I don't have to reply but I try to help whenever I can but there's basically nothing to go off of here...
Last edited by antic604 on Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5016 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:08 am
The only thing I want is the ability to accurately enter automation values for soft instruments 1 to 128 or 0 to 127.

I didn't realise that I should only start threads when I want something.
Then ready my 1st reply (2nd paragraph) which adresses exactly that:
viewtopic.php?p=7666336#p7666336

I'm not sure why would anyone want to enter track's volume or filter's cutoff in 0-127 range.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:11 am
You've not even mentioned the DAW you're using right now, so that we could - based on that - offer some comparison of how Reaper and/or Bitwig differ.
Yes I have: Reason 10.

You seem to miss half of what I say.

DarkStar
KVRAF
9524 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:08 am
The only thing I want is the ability to accurately enter automation values for soft instruments 1 to 128 or 0 to 127.
Nearly all DAWs, if not all, will let you do that. That is just using MIDI Continuous Controller events and setting the data value. The value will be 0 to 127. It does depend on the plug-in supporting MIDI CC automation. Many do, but for those that do not, you can use Reaper's "MIDI Link" to map a MIDI CC message number to a plug-in parameter.

(Plug-in parameter automation is something different, working within a range of -1,000000 to +1.000000 for example).
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:19 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 am

I'm not sure why would anyone want to enter track's volume or filter's cutoff in 0-127 range.
I said: I want to automate the VST instrument oscillator (and/or master) "tune" with accuracy 0-127.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5016 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:20 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am
antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:11 am
You've not even mentioned the DAW you're using right now, so that we could - based on that - offer some comparison of how Reaper and/or Bitwig differ.
Yes I have: Reason 10.

You seem to miss half of what I say.
Right, you did mention Reason. I'm sorry.

Still, I answered your question in my 1st post here, which you seem to have ignored.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:21 am

I didn't ignore it. I acknowledged and replied to it! But you seem to have missed it.
Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:17 am
antic604 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:03 am
Reaper definitely, Bitwig not really. Unless by "accurate" you just mean that automation values reflect the parameter's unit of measure (%, dB, Hz, and so on) and that you can type in the value. In that case yes - any DAW other than Reason has both, incl. Bitwig obviously.

Having said that, no - you don't need above features to write good music as long as you have ears. More accurate automation won't make your music better, so stick to your DAW.
Exact numbers. I thought I understand it only has a range of 128. for example I want to automate the "tune" parameter of a softsynth. I want to hit exact numbers. Its a pain in the behind doing this with Reason!

I thought more accurate automation would mean I can do things that I couldn't possibly do with less accurate automation.

Also I literally am not a computer programmer! I was asking whether you literally should be a computer programmer to get the best from Reaper and or Bitwig.

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:23 am

DarkStar wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:08 am
The only thing I want is the ability to accurately enter automation values for soft instruments 1 to 128 or 0 to 127.
Nearly all DAWs, if not all, will let you do that. That is just using MIDI Continuous Controller events and setting the data value. The value will be 0 to 127. It does depend on the plug-in supporting MIDI CC automation. Many do, but for those that do not, you can use Reaper's "MIDI Link" to map a MIDI CC message number to a plug-in parameter.

(Plug-in parameter automation is something different, working within a range of -1,000000 to +1.000000 for example).
Thanks DarkStar. I have read and am considering what you said, but I don't have anything to say in immediate reply to it!

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5016 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:23 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:19 am
antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 am

I'm not sure why would anyone want to enter track's volume or filter's cutoff in 0-127 range.
I said: I want to automate the VST instrument oscillator (and/or master) "tune" with accuracy 0-127.
Again, why? Most devices native to DAWs and 3rd party plugins offer way more accuracy AND let you enter - or automate - the parameter using the parameter's unit of measure (%, dB, Hz, kHz, and so on) unlike Reason. Why limit yourself to 0-127?
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 am

I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation. Is that so unreasonable?

Anyway i'll try the Bitwig demo when I get round to it, as per xbitz and Acid Mitch and your (antic604) suggestion.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5016 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:37 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:21 am
I didn't ignore it. I acknowledged and replied to it! But you seem to have missed it.
Ok, we seem to not understand each other because you - apparently - assume all the other DAWs work like Reason or only slightly better, whereas I'm aware that Reason is actually an exception.

In Reason there are 3 problems with changing parameters or automating stuff:

1) All the knobs & sliders in Reason work in discrete arbitrary increments, so for example track faders will have some "curve" that makes them move in say 0.3dB increments around unity, 0.6dB a bit further down and by 1.5dB jumps the further it gets from 0dB. One can't make very fine, say 0.01dB adjustments, even while holding Shift.

2) Often the value you set or automate is expressed in a completely different unit than the perameter, usually it's something arbitrary, like for example unity gain (0dB) on track fader is 7000-something on whatever scale (if I remember correctly).

3) When drawing or recording automation, one can't edit - type in - value for single point.

MOST, if not ALL, other DAWs are not like that - they'll let you be very precise with setting knob/fader values and editing automation for native devices and VSTs and most of the time you'll be able to type in the exact unit, for example "440Hz" or "A3" or "-3dB", "5ms" etc. Definitely you can in Bitwig.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but - again - just trying to help :hug:
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 am

EnGee wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:05 pm
Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:06 pm
people who program in code/writing
Well, there are different kinds of those programmers.
Those who write in C/C++, Delphi... etc with deep knowledge of DSP. And there are others who write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper.
There are also coders who write music on code like CSound, have you searched that? There are others similar software.

In the 80's they used to call the sound designer a programmer as well.

Reaktor even though you don't write a code but it nevertheless has a high learning curve. Anyway, it's a wonderful environment, you can go as deep as you want. It also you can make light usage and sound design. It has everything for a very reasonable price.
Thankyou, you answered my question. So computer programmers do write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper. So that's why/where I got my impression!

No I haven't searched Csound. For clarification: writing scripts is something I don't want!

Yes I have Reaktor but don't wish to learn the making of Reaktor instruments, effects, utilities. I understand its a great software!

Spring Goose
KVRian
572 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:43 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:37 am
you - apparently - assume all the other DAWs work like Reason or only slightly better, whereas I'm aware that Reason is actually an exception.
That isn't the case. I don't know where you got that from.
antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:37 am
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but - again - just trying to help
No problem, mate. Thanks for your help and taking the time to reply.

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