Reaper and Bitwig.

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:47 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:37 am

MOST, if not ALL, other DAWs are not like that - they'll let you be very precise with setting knob/fader values and editing automation for native devices and VSTs and most of the time you'll be able to type in the exact unit, for example "440Hz" or "A3" or "-3dB", "5ms" etc. Definitely you can in Bitwig.
OK i'll try Bitwig. Somebody (above) (I can't find it) said: "Bitwig is like Ableton. Reaper is like Cubase." That was very helpful to me.

DarkStar
KVRAF
9530 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:49 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 am
So computer programmers do write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper. So that's why/where I got my impression!
Anyone can write scripts. And more and more DAWs are using them. You do not have to be a computer programmer but that can help.

But you do not have to write any scripts to use any of the DAWs.
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:53 am

DarkStar wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:49 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 am
So computer programmers do write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper. So that's why/where I got my impression!
Anyone can write scripts. And more and more DAWs are using them. You do not have to be a computer programmer but that can help.

But you do not have to write any scripts to use any of the DAWs.
Cheers. It was putting me off a bit!

xbitz
KVRAF
2763 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 am

DarkStar wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:49 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 am
So computer programmers do write utilities with script languages such as in Bitwig and Reaper. So that's why/where I got my impression!
Anyone can write scripts. And more and more DAWs are using them. You do not have to be a computer programmer but that can help.

But you do not have to write any scripts to use any of the DAWs.
the closest thing is Max for Live if you'd like to see programmers musicians for ex. triggerable dummy clips from the arranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_g680_X3bE&t=718s
in Ableton Live, can create various kinds of stuff with it https://maxforlive.com/
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
5113 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:28 am

xbitz wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 am
in Ableton Live, can create various kinds of stuff with it https://maxforlive.com/
I still don't know how this topic went from OP just wanting to accurately set / automate parameters in 0-127 range to writing scripts and programming in Max/M4L.

But it sure as hell was a wild ride :wheee: :D
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
teilo
KVRian
520 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:31 am

Sorry, but I'm having the same problem as others. You may think you are explaining yourself adequately, but I assure you that you are not.
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 am
I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation. Is that so unreasonable?
Yes, that is very unreasonable. Notes, that is, the thing that forms your "tune", are neither coarse nor fine. They are simply notes, and have nothing to do with automation.

Now if you are expecting to compose your tune by automating the pitch and gate controls of a modular synthesizer, then you should say so. That would be an unusual way to compose music since you are working against your toolset rather than with it, but it's possible, and almost any DAW can do it.

If you are talking about generative music, then, again, you are not going to primarily use automation for your "tune."
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:40 am

xbitz wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 am

the closest thing is Max for Live if you'd like to see programmers musicians for ex. triggerable dummy clips from the arranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_g680_X3bE&t=718s
in Ableton Live, can create various kinds of stuff with it https://maxforlive.com/
Thanks.

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:44 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:31 am
Sorry, but I'm having the same problem as others. You may think you are explaining yourself adequately, but I assure you that you are not.

Spring Goose wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:32 pm
I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation. Is that so unreasonable?

Yes, that is very unreasonable. Notes, that is, the thing that forms your "tune", are neither coarse nor fine. They are simply notes, and have nothing to do with automation.

Now if you are expecting to compose your tune by automating the pitch and gate controls of a modular synthesizer, then you should say so. That would be an unusual way to compose music since you are working against your toolset rather than with it, but it's possible, and almost any DAW can do it.

If you are talking about generative music, then, again, you are not going to primarily use automation for your "tune."
I think they have already answered the question for me, and I've decided/explained what i'll do.
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 am
Anyway i'll try the Bitwig demo when I get round to it, as per xbitz and Acid Mitch and your (antic604) suggestion.
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:47 am
OK i'll try Bitwig. Somebody (above) (I can't find it) said: "Bitwig is like Ableton. Reaper is like Cubase." That was very helpful to me.

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:45 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:31 am
Sorry, but I'm having the same problem as others. You may think you are explaining yourself adequately, but I assure you that you are not.
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 am
I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation. Is that so unreasonable?
Yes, that is very unreasonable. Notes, that is, the thing that forms your "tune", are neither coarse nor fine. They are simply notes, and have nothing to do with automation.

Now if you are expecting to compose your tune by automating the pitch and gate controls of a modular synthesizer, then you should say so. That would be an unusual way to compose music since you are working against your toolset rather than with it, but it's possible, and almost any DAW can do it.

If you are talking about generative music, then, again, you are not going to primarily use automation for your "tune."
I'll respond to your words, about the automation, in a moment.

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:06 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:31 am
Sorry, but I'm having the same problem as others. You may think you are explaining yourself adequately, but I assure you that you are not.
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 am
I just want to hit the notes of the coarse "tune", using automation. Is that so unreasonable?
Yes, that is very unreasonable. Notes, that is, the thing that forms your "tune", are neither coarse nor fine. They are simply notes, and have nothing to do with automation.

Now if you are expecting to compose your tune by automating the pitch and gate controls of a modular synthesizer, then you should say so. That would be an unusual way to compose music since you are working against your toolset rather than with it, but it's possible, and almost any DAW can do it.

If you are talking about generative music, then, again, you are not going to primarily use automation for your "tune."
On a synthesizer, it typically has 2 "tune" rotarys: 1/ coarse (by note) and 2/ fine. It is quite typical for a user to for example set the coarse to +5 which is "a perfect fifth" (5 notes above the note you are playing). This makes like a chord: the root note you are playing, plus another frequency which is exactly 5 notes "a perfect fifth" above what your root note you are playing. Somebody please tell me if what i'm saying is incorrect.

Therefore, I want to "play" the coarse (by note) rotary, and I want to use automation to do so. I'm quite sure this is a fairly basic use of a synthesizer.

To recap, the "coarse" "tune"/"pitch" rotary has a limited range, and the values always are a note relative to your original played note. for example: +12 is one octave higher, and -12 is one octave lower. This is what it sounds like if I "play" the rotary of a 1 oscillator with automation:
https://soundcloud.com/user-492255322/c ... ra/s-Cj0sQ

But it already earlier has been said:
1/ Bitwig is equivalent to for example Ableton.
Reaper is equivalent to for example Cubase.
2/ Either Bitwig or Reaper can do what you'd like with the automation.

I replied that when I get round to it, i'll try the Bitwig demo.

I had earlier said that I won't change my DAW in the next 6 months.

User avatar
teilo
KVRian
520 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:22 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:06 am
On a synthesizer, it typically has 2 "tune" rotarys: 1/ coarse (by note) and 2/ fine. It is quite typical for a user to for example set the coarse to +5 which is "a perfect fifth" (5 notes above the note you are playing). This makes like a chord: the root note you are playing, plus another frequency which is exactly 5 notes "a perfect fifth" above what your root note you are playing. Somebody please tell me if what i'm saying is incorrect.
What you are saying is correct for a hardware modular synthesizer that has CV input, and nothing else. But most people, even with hardware modular, drive the CV with either a keyboard, or a signal generator that is already outputting the correct intervals, such as a sequencer.

But what you are saying is incorrect for everything else. Almost all synthesizer plugins on a computer expect note data. Notes on a piano roll. They do not expect you to be driving the pitch tuning knob with automation. I don't know where you are getting your ideas from, but it's as if you have never used anything but a 1960s-era modular synthesizer, and think that modern synthesizers and synthesizer plugins work the same way. They don't.

I've never seen someone using automation curves as their method of driving pitch. It is nearly always: note data with or without pitch bend coming from a keyboard, a MIDI clip, or some other generator which is ALSO producing note data, such as a sequencer or similar generator.
Last edited by teilo on Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:28 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:22 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:06 am
On a synthesizer, it typically has 2 "tune" rotarys: 1/ coarse (by note) and 2/ fine. It is quite typical for a user to for example set the coarse to +5 which is "a perfect fifth" (5 notes above the note you are playing). This makes like a chord: the root note you are playing, plus another frequency which is exactly 5 notes "a perfect fifth" above what your root note you are playing. Somebody please tell me if what i'm saying is incorrect.
What you are saying is correct for a hardware modular synthesizer that has CV input, and nothing else. But most people, even with hardware modular, drive the CV with either a keyboard, or a signal generator that is already outputting the correct intervals, such as a sequencer.

But what you are saying is incorrect for everything else. Almost all synthesizer plugins on a computer expect note data. Notes on a piano roll. They do not expect you to be driving the pitch tuning knob with automation. I don't know where you are getting your ideas from, but it's as if you have never used anything but a 1960s-era modular synthesizer.
I haven't used a modular synthesizer. I don't see what it has to do with CV. I don't want to play new notes with a new attack and decay. I want to continue with the same note without triggering a new attack and decay, but alter the pitch of the note. I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do.

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:31 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:22 am
pitch bend coming from a keyboard, a MIDI clip, or some other generator which is ALSO producing note data, such as a sequencer or similar generator.
Automating the "tune" rotary, isn't exact the same as pitch bend on a keyboard.

User avatar
teilo
KVRian
520 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:35 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:28 am
I haven't used a modular synthesizer. I don't see what it has to do with CV. I don't want to play new notes with a new attack and decay. I want to continue with the same note without triggering a new attack and decay, but alter the pitch of the note. I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do.
Then why didn't you say this in the first place? In all that you wrote, you never said this. That you want to start a note, and change it's pitch in precise ways, over time, without starting a new note.

Since this is, as you admit, something unusual, don't you think you would have been better off precisely describing what you were after in your first post?
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

Spring Goose
KVRian
666 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Re: Reaper and Bitwig.

Post Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:39 am

teilo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:35 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:28 am
I haven't used a modular synthesizer. I don't see what it has to do with CV. I don't want to play new notes with a new attack and decay. I want to continue with the same note without triggering a new attack and decay, but alter the pitch of the note. I'm not saying that it's usual, but i'm saying it's what I want to do.
Then why didn't you say this in the first place? In all that you wrote, you never said this. That you want to start a note, and change it's pitch in precise ways, over time, without starting a new note.

Since this is, as you admit, something unusual, don't you think you would have been better off precisely describing what you were after in your first post?
No, because my first post was a different question. I didn't think about the automation query until a little bit later, as per I have already said. I'm sorry if I have wasted your time.

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