Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

[SLiC]

Having just tried the demo of Live 10 (I have 9 suite) to see if its worth the upgrade whilst it is 30% off I have been objectively measuring audio manipulation against Bigwig 3 (which I have been using far more than Live lately) and I have to say that for my workflow Bigwig wins the vast majority of the time. Just in clip audio editing alone (drag to select, split, reverse or scale 50% then double for glitch- all in clip). 5 granular and 3 spectral starch modes (plus normal stuff) and wavetable and granular also in the sampler! + the gain, pan, pitch and formant in clip and layer mdii over clip helps with alignment (hybrid view). The main thing for me is being able to find the audio I want to edit and that is where Bitwig really shines with the (pop up and side) browser that has extensive logical search functions and the ability to make fast 'smart collections'.

[pottering]

Perhaps you´ve got the wrong workflow whatever you try to achieve there...
I find for sure many stuff which is hard to do in Reaper too...

Obviously it's an extreme example but how would you add volume variations to audio clips in a faster way in Ableton? I'm all ears.

Not mouse, but you can MIDI assign a knob to the Clip Gain knob in one clip, it will then work with any selected Clip, not only the only you did the MIDI assign.

Also:

Grooves. They can be applied to audio, and with audio the Velocity parameter in the Groove Pool changes gain instead of MIDI velocity.

Shit, groove applied to audio no-a-good idea. You should slice dem and apply groove to tha 'midi' slices not transient points of audio

Depends on the audio, depends on the groove (I made a groove from a MIDI Clip with some notes set to 0 and 127 velocity, those can get a bit too extreme, but most grooves have subtle velocity variation) and what you want to achieve.

If you want to add subtle gain variation to an 4/4 techno drum loop, a groove with low % velocity works pretty well and is faster than slicing.

Also, try a groove with only Velocity (all the rest zeroed), then commit the groove, and then check the resulting Clip Gain automation.

I think extracting Grooves could be a interesting way of getting envelopes that fit that audio part, to use (by copypaste) with other parameters.

[Kinh]

Having just tried the demo of Live 10 (I have 9 suite) to see if its worth the upgrade whilst it is 30% off I have been objectively measuring audio manipulation against Bigwig 3 (which I have been using far more than Live lately) and I have to say that for my workflow Bigwig wins the vast majority of the time. Just in clip audio editing alone (drag to select, split, reverse or scale 50% then double for glitch- all in clip). 5 granular and 3 spectral starch modes (plus normal stuff) and wavetable and granular also in the sampler! + the gain, pan, pitch and formant in clip and layer mdii over clip helps with alignment (hybrid view). The main thing for me is being able to find the audio I want to edit and that is where Bitwig really shines with the (pop up and side) browser that has extensive logical search functions and the ability to make fast 'smart collections'.

It's waaayyy ahead of bitwig. You gotsta spend more time on it. The tings you mention'd aren't really important. Anythin' new you learn will seem awkward at first whether you learn Japanese, fishin' or riding a freakin' bike. I'm sure dere are many Ableton users who try Bitwig wit as many complaints az you

[antic604]

It's waaayyy ahead of bitwig.

Notice the discussion is about editing audio. In this respect I can't see how Live is "waaayyy ahead of Bitwig", because it isn't. The FEATURES are basically the same (with some stuff absent on either side), whereas the big difference is in the WORKFLOW that is much more streamilned & faster in Live.

[Distorted Horizon]

WORKFLOW that is much more streamilned & faster in Live.

Yeah.. To make some edits in the session view, you need to drag the clip to arrangement view for editing and then drag it back.. Instead of doing it in session view directly, like in bitwig

[antic604]

WORKFLOW that is much more streamilned & faster in Live.

Yeah.. To make some edits in the session view, you need to drag the clip to arrangement view for editing and then drag it back.. Instead of doing it in session view directly, like in bitwig

That's about the only thing that Bitwig has going for it in this area. That's why I said "some stuff absent on either side".

[Distorted Horizon]

WORKFLOW that is much more streamilned & faster in Live.

Yeah.. To make some edits in the session view, you need to drag the clip to arrangement view for editing and then drag it back.. Instead of doing it in session view directly, like in bitwig

That's about the only thing that Bitwig has going for it in this area. That's why I said "some stuff absent on either side".

Workflow is faster in Bitwig. Took me ages to do simple things in live.

[Kinh]

Dont listen to them, they dont know what they're talkin' bout. What they're saying basically applies to people who work in session view AND arrangement view, yet many who work in Ableton only work in arrangement view which is faster workflow than bitwig. Also you dont 'drag' from session view anyway, you hit the record button which only takes as long as the length of the song. So, in a nutshell they're looking for ways to make life harder in Ableton rather than easier in order to justify their bitwig choice.
No one who's serious about being accomplished at anything looks for the harder approach unless they're looking for an excuse to give up.
Bitwig is all over the shop, where is Live is more streamlined and in front of you.

[tooneba]

Why are you deciding and directing the kvr users to not read things? Are you moderator?

Dont listen to them, they dont know what they're talkin' bout. What they're saying basically applies to people who work in session view AND arrangement view, yet many who work in Ableton only work in arrangement view which is faster workflow than bitwig. Also you dont 'drag' from session view anyway, you hit the record button which only takes as long as the length of the song. So, in a nutshell they're looking for ways to make life harder in Ableton rather than easier in order to justify their bitwig choice.
No one who's serious about being accomplished at anything looks for the harder approach unless they're looking for an excuse to give up.
Bitwig is all over the shop, where is Live is more streamlined and in front of you.

[Dirtgrain]

Caps lock

[dr zeus]

When i watch videos on youtube how easy, with great quality warping etc the audio editing is i wonder if it is the best daw for it? Or is it bullshit? What are your opinions? As a fl studio user i always find  audio  Editing a pain and use mostly 3rd party samplers.

Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

No.

Ableton Live is designed as a clip launcher and midi sequencer controlled by rows of buttons. If you want audio manipulation, start with a DAW designed for audio editing.

[Kinh]

When i watch videos on youtube how easy, with great quality warping etc the audio editing is i wonder if it is the best daw for it? Or is it bullshit? What are your opinions? As a fl studio user i always find  audio  Editing a pain and use mostly 3rd party samplers.

Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

No.

Ableton Live is designed as a clip launcher and midi sequencer controlled by rows of buttons. If you want audio manipulation, start with a DAW designed for audio editing.

Someone else who doesn't quite know what he's talkin' bout.
Yes, Ableton was originally designed as a clip launcher, controlled by rows many, many years ago but since then it's developed it's linear sequencing functions to the point where it's audio manipulation abilities are superior to many if not all out there. It's superior to cubase in terms of workflow and bitwig, of function.
I appreciate your opinion but you really have to be an Ableton user to be an authority on "Abelton audio manipulation" subject, rather than just an observer.

[Kinh]

Why are you deciding and directing the kvr users to not read things? Are you moderator?

I'm not, they've already read the comments that come before mine.

[tooneba]

Why are you deciding and directing the kvr users to not read things? Are you moderator?

I'm not, they've already read the comments that come before mine.

Don't omit the quote.

Dont listen to them,

[WasteLand]

by zeus! why all those pointless discussions what is the best?? as question, it is not bad, you cán learn from reactions.

but, by zeus, why? why? i don't have bitwig, seems a great DAW. if have, among others, ableton live 10 suite (because of the push 2, maybe strange reason, but i am controller freak..).

the workflow in ableton is pretty good, but there is no connection to session view and arranger view! as stated in some responses.

i use also, for instance, cubase pro 10.5, great workflow, and you can do everything what ableton can, no not really. the routing options..

but hey! come on! the best daw doesn't make the best music... i like ableton, it's devives, m4l, the session view. the arranger, mweh. bad. for me, it is personal. not a objective statement.

i like that i make different music in different "ecosystems", and even if i am into modulars (soft), and sounddesign (from scratch), and using many effects plugins only for sounddesign. i can do it all, what i want, with third party stuff.

so, limitations, are to be conquered!

and audio editing in cubase is great (especially in combination with wavelab pro 10 and spectralayers pro 6, and third party mangling plugins).

and audio editing, sounddesign in ableton is great.