Cubase 10: Secondary (or substitute) fader control.

[Mushy Mushy]

Is there, in effect. a secondary fader control somewhere hidden?

To elaborate, I do a lot of volume automation throughout a mix but then when it comes to the final mix it's a nightmare to adjust what could be several hundred automation curves just to bring down the level of a single track.

Therefore by default when creating a new insrument/audio track I put Khz Gain at the very end and automate that instead. I can then change the track level on the channel fader immediately to balance the mix later.

This approach works fine but I wonder if I'm missing some functionality 'in-house'.

[cleverr1]

Is there, in effect. a secondary fader control somewhere hidden?

To elaborate, I do a lot of volume automation throughout a mix but then when it comes to the final mix it's a nightmare to adjust what could be several hundred automation curves just to bring down the level of a single track.

Therefore by default when creating a new insrument/audio track I put Khz Gain at the very end and automate that instead. I can then change the track level on the channel fader immediately to balance the mix later.

This approach works fine but I wonder if I'm missing some functionality 'in-house'.

Easiest way is to create a VCA fader for that track.
Alternatively you could create duplicate fx tracks for any sends and swap the sends within the channel for the duplicated versions. Then route them along with the track itself into a group channel and automate that. This is probably overkill for a single track but really useful to submix.

[Mushy Mushy]

Is there, in effect. a secondary fader control somewhere hidden?

To elaborate, I do a lot of volume automation throughout a mix but then when it comes to the final mix it's a nightmare to adjust what could be several hundred automation curves just to bring down the level of a single track.

Therefore by default when creating a new insrument/audio track I put Khz Gain at the very end and automate that instead. I can then change the track level on the channel fader immediately to balance the mix later.

This approach works fine but I wonder if I'm missing some functionality 'in-house'.

Easiest way is to create a VCA fader for that track.
Alternatively you could create duplicate fx tracks for any sends and swap the sends within the channel for the duplicated versions. Then route them along with the track itself into a group channel and automate that. This is probably overkill for a single track but really useful to submix.

That would mean I'd need upwards of 100 VCA faders* for 100 tracks. That seems a bit excessive. I still don't understand the point of VCA's to be honest. It's nothing a sub-bus doesnt do

*I realise a VCA groups together multiple tracks such as a drum bus.

[cleverr1]

That would mean I'd need upwards of 100 VCA faders for 100 tracks. That seems a bit excessive. I still don't understand the point of VCA's to be honest. It's nothing a sub-buss doesnt do

VCA faders are just simpler because you don't have to replace the send fx with duplicates and then route them all to the same group.

If you need something to automate the overall levels of 100 automated tracks independently then you're going to need 100 things to do it whether they're VCA faders or a plugin in each chain. It's either that or edit the automation curves.

[Mushy Mushy]

That would mean I'd need upwards of 100 VCA faders for 100 tracks. That seems a bit excessive. I still don't understand the point of VCA's to be honest. It's nothing a sub-buss doesnt do

VCA faders are just simpler because you don't have to replace the send fx with duplicates and then route them all to the same group.

If you need something to automate the overall levels of 100 automated tracks independently then you're going to need 100 things to do it whether they're VCA faders or a plugin in each chain. It's either that or edit the automation curves.

Yes this is true however it is adding mess to the project. Instead of having X tracks I would then have X*2.

[cleverr1]

Yes this is true however it is adding mess to the project. Instead of having X tracks I would then have X*2.

I think the main advantage of using VCA channels in this situation is visual in that you can see the automation of multiple tracks at the same time. If you were to name the VCA channels so it's clear what they're controlling you could then create a mix console configuration showing only the VCAs and toggle to another configuration which hides the VCAs when you need to edit the channels themselves.

[lfm]

To elaborate, I do a lot of volume automation throughout a mix but then when it comes to the final mix it's a nightmare to adjust what could be several hundred automation curves just to bring down the level of a single track.

There is relative, trim or offset mode as some call it. Automation manager in Cubase has some things to activate.

So just do normal automation on the track at hand.

As I recall in Cubase if you have transport stopped, you can move entire curve up or down - or first select all nodes, don't remember.

There is also some feature to activate if automation is burned it right away, or if you do separate freeze/merge step later. So you can have two curves on the same track, one is total and one is relative not yet burned in.

[JoaquinAce]

Is there, in effect. a secondary fader control somewhere hidden?

To elaborate, I do a lot of volume automation throughout a mix but then when it comes to the final mix it's a nightmare to adjust what could be several hundred automation curves just to bring down the level of a single track.

Therefore by default when creating a new insrument/audio track I put Khz Gain at the very end and automate that instead. I can then change the track level on the channel fader immediately to balance the mix later.

This approach works fine but I wonder if I'm missing some functionality 'in-house'.

No, not missing anything. I do the same as you with either Kilohearts Gain or Blue Cat Audio’s Gain plug-in. They use so little CPU and I just have them as default on my channels so I don’t even have to insert them every time.

[Mushy Mushy]

Thanks all. happy to hear I'm not missing a trick.

I have no problem using a third party plugin for this but if given the choice I would prefer to keep all utliity functions in-house (ie, Steinberg). Why? I can't explain and I agree it's pointless but it's just a preference. Essentially I'm trying to use the built in functionality more and more I guess.

[WasteLand]

i have blue cat audio's gain plugin-in for it, it is free. and great, and can also communicate with other gain instances, vst3 only, don't know.

i do sometimes a lot of automation, but not on volume anymore. but as mushy mushy says. there must be a way to get via automation. i use, but and sometimes edit it, or do it by hand. i have enough controllers to do by ear.
but volume seems not that necessary anymore. in audio tracks i use gain, in events, split them. so i do gain, within cubase for audio tracks.

[Googly Smythe]

I'm probably mis-understanding the question, but...
Why not just select the automation events that you want to change and adjust them using either the mouse (grab and drag the handles that appear to adjust absolutely or scaled) or type in a value in the Info Line to change all automation events by the same amount? Repeat for each track, of course.

Screenshot (1).jpg

[Mushy Mushy]

I'm probably mis-understanding the question, but...
Why not just select the automation events that you want to change and adjust them using either the mouse (grab and drag the handles that appear to adjust absolutely or scaled) or type in a value in the Info Line to change all automation events by the same amount? Repeat for each track, of course.

Let's say I have 100 tracks, all of which have 10 curves, that's 1000 little nodes I need to adjust. Admittedly, as others have mentioned, I can select all and drag them down at once but that gets very finicky.

Conversely by using the KHz Gain approach I instead simply type say -0.5 in the channel fader.

Also, based on other reponses it seems this is a common method.

Essentially It would be nice to have a utility tool such as the Ableton one included. Sure I can use third party but as I said I like maximising inbuilt functionality.

[fese]

You could use the trim functionality. Open the automation panel, click “trim” in the top right corner and activate write automation. Now you get a second line in the automation lane with which you can move the whole of the automation data up or down, either with the mouse or via text input in the info bar. You even can completely edit the trim line with new points and Bézier curves and the original automation data scales accordingly.

That being said, if I have to do something like this, I usually either turn the output of the last plugin used or select all the automation points on the lane (can be done quickly with shift-double click on the first point of the line) and use the mouse wheel over the value field in the info bar.

Edit: I might be wrong, but I think trim mode is only available in Cubase Pro.

[Mushy Mushy]

You could use the trim functionality. Open the automation panel, click “trim” in the top right corner and activate write automation. Now you get a second line in the automation lane with which you can move the whole of the automation data up or down, either with the mouse or via text input in the info bar.

I think we may have a winner. Will check when I'm in the studio tonight

[zoidkirb]

How are you with the Logical Editor? This method might be the fastest once you've got it setup. Relevant part is 4 minutes in.
https://youtu.be/-Ryx6W9z0Jc