$600 Humble Bundle: Aug 12th 2020: ACID Music Studio 11 / Video Pro X11 / Sound Forge Audio Studio 13 ect..

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:44 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:35 am
I'm a bit confused and ask myself what's to hate about this deal (especially when you propose spending 4 to 6 times as much at the same time...), but, hey, I stopped trying to understand KVR years ago. :P
There is no hate - it's typical KVR fashion to distort what others said and to create a sense of drama over something completely trivial such as "great deal or not such a great deal", so if you have troubles understanding KVR that might mean you confuse the hell out or yourself...

4-6 times as much? Your math skills are less than non-existant, it seems - it's 26$ vs 49$, so you could say almost twice as much or simply 23$ more. But you get a lot for these 23bucks.

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KVRAF
1806 posts since 16 Jul, 2004 from Deepest Yorkshire

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:51 am

As an alternative, Fanatical have a couple of Magix bundles:

Fanatical Music Bundle 2 by MAGIX (£8.50)
https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/fan ... 2-by-magix

Fanatical Creativity Bundle by MAGIX (£25)
https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/fan ... e-by-magix

However, FYI: Bitdefender blocked the download of the Fanatical version of Music Maker (hosted by Magix) with an infected warning.

Hopefully/Probably just a false positive but I notified Magix and Fanatical. They both came back saying they had referred it to Bitdefender.
Last edited by khanyz on Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
I miss MindPrint. My TRIO needs a big brother.

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KVRAF
3992 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:55 am

I'll just leave this here:

Both after effects and vegas are 2D only.

Something like Blender is 3D. In vegas, you can not really position something in front
of, or behind something else because there is no depth. E.g. Something needs to be in front
of a light to block it and create a shadow. So things like shadows and reflections have
to be faked, so they will never look as good as when they are calculated in a 3D coordinate
system. Things like the Boris fx might have an internal coordinate system to use for calculations,
but it's mostly just a better way to fake it as the necessary date does not exist in the source
material.

In general, the reasons you might want to use vegas would be to either edit live video,
to use it to stich together frame by frame animation that was created in a 3D program
like blender, or to combine the 2 together. That's why they call it an editor, you
can't really create anything significant in vegas, you use it to process images or
video together like you might use soundforge to work with audio.

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KVRAF
4436 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:59 am

Have you tried to install the
FXhome Enhance Ultra,
which is included to the Vegas bundle?

Doesn’t seem to appear as the
VEGAS Pro 16 Edit resources inside it, as it should.

And: note, that the proDAD ReSpeedr is running only as a stand alone, not inside Vegas.

KVRAF
13018 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:13 am

Harry_HH wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:59 am
Have you tried to install the
FXhome Enhance Ultra,
which is included to the Vegas bundle?

Doesn’t seem to appear as the
VEGAS Pro 16 Edit resources inside it, as it should.

And: note, that the proDAD ReSpeedr is running only as a stand alone, not inside Vegas.
I didn't install either.

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KVRAF
3992 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:46 am

An example of faked effects with vegas, there is no light, no sphere and no motion. So the light
doesn't cast shadows or reflections on the sphere, and of course there is no sphere... :lol:

So the background is quite flat, there is a vignette to make it look round, a bulge filter
to make it look spherical and a static lens flare. All vegas effects and that's it. The motion
is in the back ground image, which is a fractal rendered in opengl with a few of it's parameters
modulated by the amplitude of the audio. It's growing rather than moving actually.

https://vimeo.com/430168596

KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:16 am

Double post
Last edited by jens on Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:17 am

pekbro wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:55 am
I'll just leave this here:

Both after effects and vegas are 2D only.

Something like Blender is 3D. In vegas, you can not really position something in front
of, or behind something else because there is no depth. E.g. Something needs to be in front
of a light to block it and create a shadow. So things like shadows and reflections have
to be faked, so they will never look as good as when they are calculated in a 3D coordinate
system. Things like the Boris fx might have an internal coordinate system to use for calculations,
but it's mostly just a better way to fake it as the necessary date does not exist in the source
material.

In general, the reasons you might want to use vegas would be to either edit live video,
to use it to stich together frame by frame animation that was created in a 3D program
like blender, or to combine the 2 together. That's why they call it an editor, you
can't really create anything significant in vegas, you use it to process images or
video together like you might use soundforge to work with audio.
Aftet Effects is actually what they call 2.5D... but that aside you seem to be a bit confused as to what 3D means in regards to video sofware (as your explanation frankly put does not really make a lot of sense and is misleading at best).

I will gladly explain if there is any genuine interest.

Edit: re-reading your post you are actually not that off, AE aside...

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KVRAF
3992 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:36 am

Well perhaps I was over simplifying things, but 2.5 d is bullshit really. But whatever, don't take my word for it. I'm just some guy on the internet. :D

*It has been a while since I used after effects, maybe it's better now with some of the 3D stuff they are into. But the 3D camera in a 2D compositor is not really as useful as you might think. It will
always be better to do it in 3D. Things like image based rendering and god knows what they have
around these days will always provide better results I'd wager. When ever I have worked on a
movie, after effects was pretty much only used for the credits and intros. Things like match moving
and camera tracking were pretty insufficient there in. :shrug:

KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:44 am

I don't need to take your word for anything, since I am well versed in After Effects and - no offense meant - going by what you wrote here I assume I might know a tiny bit more about it than you.

After Effects is "2.5D" because while it has a 3D space with 3D cameras and 3D lightning, it does not natively know 3D objects. You would have to import them e.g. using Cineware. If you do so, After Effects behaves similar to something like Blender, which however can create (and modify) 3D objects itself and natively knows them inside out, so to speak.

Why are 3D objects important? Well, basically, without them 3D does not really exist, i.e. is a two-dimensional illusion otherwise - and that goes for Blender too.

Blender can import video files - like After Effects - and - like After Effects - it can not impose anything three-dimensional upon these video-files. That is simply impossible. A (normal) video file is two-dimensional by definition.

You can create seemingly three-dimensional effects (Such as lightning and shadows) for video-files, however these are actually two-dimensional, be it Blender or After Effects, or Vegas or Premiere.
(You create an illusion of 3D by making clever use of masking, dimensional distortion, alpha channels, etc.)

You may layer a three-dimensional space with objects on top (or rather in front) of a video-file, however this video-file itself is not actually part of this 3D space. And this 3D space can exist in both AE and Blender.

KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:58 am

pekbro wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:36 am
, but 2.5 d is bullshit really.
it's not "bullshit" - it's a clearly defined set of features that either meets or does not meet your specific requirements. Saying something as uspecific, undefined and information-bare as calling it "bullshit" makes it sound like you have no clue what you are actually talking about.

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Beware the Quoth
29680 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:05 am

<insert popcorn emoji here>
successfully and consistently snarky

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KVRAF
3992 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:15 am

jens wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:58 am
pekbro wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:36 am
, but 2.5 d is bullshit really.
it's not "bullshit" - it's a clearly defined set of features that either meets or does not meet your specific requirements. Saying something as uspecific, undefined and information-bare as calling it "bullshit" makes it sound like you have no clue what you are actually talking about.
Heh, Well certainly that's true. There is some bias involved I suppose. In any event that was an unfair comment no doubt. My viewpoint is very different than most to be sure.

KVRAF
21105 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:41 am

That's certainly more that fair enough! Everyone is different and everyone has different needs.
(I have been cursing my way through the day myself already btw. trying to incorporate obj.-files in AE using Cineware :bang:, so yeah... )

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Beware the Quoth
29680 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:46 am

jens wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:41 am
That's certainly more that fair enough! Everyone is different and everyone has different needs.
(I have been cursing my way through the day myself already btw. trying to incorporate obj.-files in AE using Cineware :bang:, so yeah... )
If you need to do this a lot, have a look at Element 3D, its one of things we use for importing Maya->AE
successfully and consistently snarky

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