The next Live update?

[machinesworking]

I agree but that's exactly true for every DAW according to the user. Nothing special in BWS or any other DAW except a personal exceptionalism. Of course Ableton 11 will not be unbelievable, no DAW will ever be

Logic 10.5 is pretty unbelievable, but honestly they're all pretty amazing these days. MPE synths are an interest of mine though and Bitwig does that well.

[liquidsound]

I agree but that's exactly true for every DAW according to the user. Nothing special in BWS or any other DAW except a personal exceptionalism. Of course Ableton 11 will not be unbelievable, no DAW will ever be

Logic 10.5 is pretty unbelievable, but honestly they're all pretty amazing these days. MPE synths are an interest of mine though and Bitwig does that well.

I go nuts with ilLogic
I hate any piano roll where I can’t zoom to cursor. Logic has one of those which is “Unbelievable”

MPE.... soon it’s going to be everywhere and in the meantime I can live and thrive without.

Logic it’s on my Mac and I can rewire Ableton but not BWS (Surprise ) which it would not make much sense anyway.

Ableton 11 could be an opportunity for them to be the Second Generation in this type of workflow. BWS was not and neither Logic.

BWS nailed with the modulations and some with the main Session/Linear layout.
Ableton needs to do a miracle with M4L integration and CPU and add other standard features, and then.... come up with something as unique as it was when they first launched Live.

Possible?

[tooneba]

Speaking of piano roll I won't upgrade until they fix the shared piano roll height with audio clip editor. What a moronic design choice. I'm tired of endless window resizing madness. Otherwise, I will keep ableton for audio loop painter like Acid has been good at doing.

[antic604]

Yeap.. it's been like what? a year and a ha'f since we've seen a major update from Ableton? I think they are done for. Too many Daw's have now copied their precious Session View(clip launcher) feature and they've lost the edge. Bitwig is what Ableton should have been by now and that ship sailed long ago.

No they are focusing on stability not new features. Most people don't even scratch the surface with it

This is such a preposterous position to hold. The fact that someone doesn't e.g. use racks or M4L to their full potential doesn't mean they're not held back because of lack of MPE, comping, ARA integration.

[machinesworking]

I hate any piano roll where I can’t zoom to cursor. Logic has one of those which is “Unbelievable”

Seriously, and I do mean this with all due respect, Logic by far has the best navigation system once you get it down. I used both full time between 2003 and 2009 or so, and Live was always like going to tinytown, riding the kids train in the toddler section in comparison.

There are so many good things about Live but the curser "go to the timeline and drag" navigation system is BS compared to Logics absolutely top notch zooming features with the magnifying glass.

I don't even really use Logic anymore, but I can say without ay doubt that it's top tier when it comes to zooming anywhere. You just need to look into key commands etc.

[machinesworking]

Speaking of piano roll I won't upgrade until they fix the shared piano roll height with audio clip editor. What a moronic design choice. I'm tired of endless window resizing madness. Otherwise, I will keep ableton for audio loop painter like Acid has been good at doing.

I think that's what really broke me, Bitwig actually having a piano roll. Plus, Ableton freaking allowed two windows but just shit the bed with this, and didn't bother allowing the piano roll to be split off to another screen... blagh!

[antic604]

There are so many good things about Live but the curser "go to the timeline and drag" navigation system is BS compared to Logics absolutely top notch zooming features with the magnifying glass.

To be fair, since Live v10.0 a lot of features for scrolling & zooming have been added, including new keyboard shortcuts, 2-finger touchpad gestures (I'm assuming they work with mouse, too), pinch to zoom, etc. It's almost perfect, although not consistent with prevailing standards implemented in Bitwig, S1 or ...Reason.

I don't think I ever clicked on the timeline bar since v10.0.

[wasabi25]

Ableton Studio 11 will be unbelievable...

It's called bitwig.

I hope Abes do 'borrow' some of the better ideas from BW, return the favour. Dom would surely agree in the name of fairness.

They should still keep AU support though, anything else is a bit absurd for a supposed Mac version of the SW. And avoid the naff subscription model too, that sucks.

LOLOLOLOL.
Agreed. 100%.

[liquidsound]

I hate any piano roll where I can’t zoom to cursor. Logic has one of those which is “Unbelievable”

Seriously, and I do mean this with all due respect, Logic by far has the best navigation system once you get it down. I used both full time between 2003 and 2009 or so, and Live was always like going to tinytown, riding the kids train in the toddler section in comparison.

There are so many good things about Live but the curser "go to the timeline and drag" navigation system is BS compared to Logics absolutely top notch zooming features with the magnifying glass.

I don't even really use Logic anymore, but I can say without ay doubt that it's top tier when it comes to zooming anywhere. You just need to look into key commands etc.

As antic perfectly stated:

To be fair, since Live v10.0 a lot of features for scrolling & zooming have been added, including new keyboard shortcuts, 2-finger touchpad gestures (I'm assuming they work with mouse, too), pinch to zoom, etc. It's almost perfect...

I don't think I ever clicked on the timeline bar since v10.0.

One of the reason I love MuLab is the piano roll navigation system.
I don’t want to use the zoom feature like Logic, I want to dial in to the right spot and out gradually as I need.
I’ve been a CAD designer for the past 30 years and that cursor thing is part of my relation to the objects on the screen being a midi note or a part feature.

Even the pen mode in Ableton is great because it behaves exactly like the mouse without giving me “extras” I don’t usually use when working with mouse. I like consistency and I get it with MuLab and Ableton etc.

I know Logic has a great depth which it prevents me from really use it to its full extent, but man, I need to create fairly quick and my two main DAWs really do get out of the way when I make music.

Even S1 has the ability to be next to you without stealing your focus. Logic? God bless you if your were able to learn it that well to function that well with it.
FL is another one I keep updated out of a habit But Zilch! Nada!

[PieBerger]

I would like proper multiclip fading and container clips i.e. blocks that contain audio that you can copy/pase, duplicate and move around the arrangement because consolidating into a new audio file is poo; takes up necessary disk space and streaming audio silence can be a problem with high track counts (made worse with no strip silence feature). I would also like to be able to add plugins to multiple highlighted tracks.

Nothing major really, just some QoL improvements for faster editing and mixing. It's otherwise damn near perfect for my needs.

I'd like a comping solution to be added, not for me, but because it's the number 1 requested feature in the Live 10 beta plus it was pretty high up the list during the 9 beta IIRC and will make a lot of existing users happy and hopefully bring more people onboard through upgrades to 10 or over from other DAWs even.

[antic604]

I would like...

Did you get a PM from me via Messenger?

[PieBerger]

I would like...

Did you get a PM from me via Messenger?

Nothing there, maybe try again

Edit: that's weird, it didn't show up on desktop but it did on the mobile. I've replied

[pdxindy]

I agree but that's exactly true for every DAW according to the user. Nothing special in BWS or any other DAW except a personal exceptionalism. Of course Ableton 11 will not be unbelievable, no DAW will ever be

Logic 10.5 is pretty unbelievable, but honestly they're all pretty amazing these days. MPE synths are an interest of mine though and Bitwig does that well.

Yeah... Logic 10.5 is a very impressive update. Even more than it seems at first... and it seems great even at first.

Every DAW is amazing today...

Bitwig’s handling of MPE data makes it editable for me... fast enough that I use it. Bitwig’s MPE support is the best I have tried. It’s great for crafting instruments with lots of nuanced expressiveness. Bitwig also never crashes. I appreciate the stability.

I don’t believe Live will ever catch up to Bitwig for MPE support

[liquidsound]

Why not... unless that’s makes you feel better
There is so much ahead of us that there is room for improvement and innovation.
Ableton may well do the unexpected. Believe are based on references, that’s all.
I’m looking at BWS and for sure they are carving a path to themselves. They may end up too far from the caravan.
The Grid was adding a Modular synth... while most are using a DAW focusing on production.

I still love BWS system but... as you see it’s going both directions:
People are coming and going MPE or not. Live workflow or not.

Me, I’ll believe when I see it... no reason not to believe.

Look at MuLab for example, suddenly it will have clip launcher.
And it may be better than anything out there knowing the amazing developer.

[pdxindy]

Why not... unless that’s makes you feel better
There is so much ahead of us that there is room for improvement and innovation.
Ableton may well do the unexpected.

Why not? Good question...

There are many aspects of MPE in Bitwig that are quietly powerful, flexible and fast due to the integrated nature of Bitwig. For example, with Bitwig instruments, the modulators can be per voice. That is not possible in Live even with M4L. So every Bitwig instrument (including the Grid) has unlimited modulation per voice and fully integrated with MPE and voice stacking.

Then there are the selector devices and how they work with MPE, and the arpeggiator works smartly with MPE.

Live doesn’t even record midi channel data and Bitwig is doing interesting stuff far beyond that. Live is so far behind that there is no way they can catch up in any meaningful timeframe.

If MPE and live playing is a priority for someone, then Bitwig is freakin awesome!!