How many of you use Studio One 5's Show Page?

[antic604]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

[apoclypse]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.

I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.

[wuworld]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.

I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.

To me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.

[THE INTRANCER]

Maybe if they add a 3D virtual reality environment with surround sound you can place yourself in, where not only can you watch what is happening, but actually participate in changing the song someone is creating themselves with whatever is added by the host. Call it VPS - Virtual Participation Studio.

[BONES]

You reckon wrong. You seem to have very surface-level understanding of what clip launchers do

Well, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?

Oh so now you watching Gregor now lol.

I often watch Gregor and he continues to creep me out, whilst simultaneously providing useful information in a concise, non self-serving manner.

I don't think he understands the latest modern day features for music creation.

Or maybe I've been doing this long enough that I don't need to be nursed like a baby and am happy to do things for myself?

Unless the Show page appeals to more modern music producers/creators it's not going to get much attention. Presonus isn't competing with Cubase or DP but FL/Ableton. Go on youtube, and you will barely find any content on the show page.

You mean it won't get much attention from the kinds of fucktards who inhabit YouTube. As I said, pretty much every touring band we have played with would be all over the Show Page functionality if they knew about it and/or weren't so rusted onto ProTools. I think you are confusing "modern" with "amateur".

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

Maybe that's because Presonus staff know their customers and understand their needs? There is a whole world out there beyond bedroom producers and I can see a decent market for what the Show Page has to offer. OTOH, I can see no value in anything Live has to offer, but I am not so narrow-minded as to believe that just because I can't see any value in it that there is not a market for it elsewhere. You need to broaden your horizons, little man.

[trusampler]

They should've spent time on building a proper browser that we can use to tag our own content, now I'm stuck still searching for 3rd party offerings, which there aren't many.

These are the same dev's that created mediabay,this is why I purchased S1 to begin with when it first came out,knowing these dev's are extremely talented, but they haven't used an ounce of knowledge when it comes to the S1 browser.

I still bought it, to show my support,but after 5 versions,and still no way to tag my own content,I'm starting to lose my faith in them, and their direction. No love for the show page, whatsoever.

[BONES]

I consider the browser a waste of valuable screen real estate and almost never have it visible. That S1's workflow is so tied to it is a source of frustration to me and I'd be happy if it disappeared forever. But Presonus seem so into the whole D'n'D thing, another thing I dislike and rarely use, that I have made peace with the reality that I'm stuck with it.

[apoclypse]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.

I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.

To me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.

While Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.

Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.

[antic604]

You reckon wrong. You seem to have very surface-level understanding of what clip launchers do

Well, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?

That's 80% of what people are using them for!

You get a bunch of ideas (loops, sequences) in place and them mix & match them to see what works well together, which order should they come in, etc. Not to mention all of the benefits for live performance, where you can skip whole parts, loop them longer, swap a melody in chorus or bass in a verse to be different to respond to crowd, add & control a battery of FX on the fly using dummy clips... It's a completely different music creation paradigm, which opened up the world of music making to a whole new audience. For better or worse

[BONES]

That's a very random way of making music. Why wouldn't you try each and every combination, rather than leave it to chance? I certainly can't see how it opens up anything to an audience, who would have no idea how what they're hearing was made. Unless by "audience" you mean "market". Even then, I still don't see how it enables anyone to do anything they wouldn't otherwise do a different, often easier way. From what I've seen, you'd spend way longer setting stuff up in Session View than it would otherwise take to do the work in a more traditional way. You'd have to really want to work that way to be bothered, wouldn't you?

[antic604]

That's a very random way of making music. Why wouldn't you try each and every combination, rather than leave it to chance?

That is leaving it to chance. If you're working in a linear / traditional way, you need to come with at least rough apre-conceived idea for the arrangement & progression, capture it and polish a bit. With clip launchers you actually let the arrangement & progression emerge from a collection of often random bits & pieces, by experimenting, using actual randomisation, generative tools.

I understand that this way of working may not appeal to you and that's perfectly fine. But many people - you could say the less talented ones, if you'd like - do like it and it's the only way they can come up with something. And one has to be open to possibility that such workflow gives rise to new styles of music and new production techniques. Not all of them are good, obviously; but that's par for the course with any experimental endeavour.

I certainly can't see how it opens up anything to an audience, who would have no idea how what they're hearing was made. Unless by "audience" you mean "market". Even then, I still don't see how it enables anyone to do anything they wouldn't otherwise do a different, often easier way.

Imagine you're playing your stuff live in front of audience. You observe their reaction. You see they don't like something - you skip it. You see they like something - you make it loop longer. You noticed they reacted more strongly to an earlier melody than the one you introduced in a break, so you swap it out for the verse on the fly. You see people like some part so you loop it, but to make it more exciting you add a bunch of effects, triggering them via dummy clips. And so on & on...

I mean if you're a band of people playing their parts you can easly do those things just grunting & winking to each other, but if you're an electronic music producer that's all alone and the track is at 150BPM, a clip launcher is a God send

From what I've seen, you'd spend way longer setting stuff up in Session View than it would otherwise take to do the work in a more traditional way. You'd have to really want to work that way to be bothered, wouldn't you?

As I said, there are things you can do in clip launcher you simply can't do - on-the fly, organically and without audible glitches - on a linear timeline. Obviously in the end the music is linear so you can ultimately get the same final effect, but it's gonna be written in stone and static, whereas its's those moment-to-moment choices and actions that clip launchers let you do that are making all the difference.



All of this comes however from someone who just left clip launching DAWs (Bitwig, Live) because for me such workflow created an opportunity to never comit to anything and to never progress the tracks, because possibilities are endless so why would I choose just one?!

Like anything - DAW tools have their pros & cons, but it's up to given person to be able to use the former and avoid the latter. If you're quicker or more creative on a linear timeline - good for you! If you need a clip launcher to kickstart a creative process - good for you too!

[wuworld]

You reckon wrong. You seem to have very surface-level understanding of what clip launchers do

Well, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?

Oh so now you watching Gregor now lol.

I often watch Gregor and he continues to creep me out, whilst simultaneously providing useful information in a concise, non self-serving manner.

I don't think he understands the latest modern day features for music creation.

Or maybe I've been doing this long enough that I don't need to be nursed like a baby and am happy to do things for myself?

Unless the Show page appeals to more modern music producers/creators it's not going to get much attention. Presonus isn't competing with Cubase or DP but FL/Ableton. Go on youtube, and you will barely find any content on the show page.

You mean it won't get much attention from the kinds of fucktards who inhabit YouTube. As I said, pretty much every touring band we have played with would be all over the Show Page functionality if they knew about it and/or weren't so rusted onto ProTools. I think you are confusing "modern" with "amateur".

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

Maybe that's because Presonus staff know their customers and understand their needs? There is a whole world out there beyond bedroom producers and I can see a decent market for what the Show Page has to offer. OTOH, I can see no value in anything Live has to offer, but I am not so narrow-minded as to believe that just because I can't see any value in it that there is not a market for it elsewhere. You need to broaden your horizons, little man.

As for the F tard. Can't call any youtubers that since you watch it as well. You should look at yourself first before calling anyone that. As for Gregor, I learned a lot from him as well. I recommend the macro tutorial, since you don't know how to use them. You have more an old school approach, with no understanding of modern making techniques. You only like what you started making 15 or 25 years ago.

[wuworld]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.

I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.

To me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.

While Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.

Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.

Nobody uses clip launching or the session view right now. Only the hip hop producers or some edm guys really showcase this. The showpage is going for a unique market that nobody is buying. That's why you barely see any talk about it or people joining Presonus Facebook group seeing if it has similar workflows to Live. You had a 100-200 comments on a thread in Presonus group asking for Presonus to have this like "Ableton with Push" or "Integrate Maschine/KK" or users would ditch S1 until they did. They aren't doing this for the show page. Matter fact its barely any discussion in various studio one users group for the showpage. When they do an update to the showpage, and Ableton does a . update and drops a push 2 standalone let's see what people talk more about. Add FL Studio 21 when it drops, and Maschine updates. Or a new Logic X (which clearly 10.6 was focused on the beatmaker/producer).

[apoclypse]

Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.

This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example

We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.

I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.

To me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.

While Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.

Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.

Nobody uses clip launching or the session view right now. Only the hip hop producers or some edm guys really showcase this. The showpage is going for a unique market that nobody is buying. That's why you barely see any talk about it or people joining Presonus Facebook group seeing if it has similar workflows to Live. You had a 100-200 comments on a thread in Presonus group asking for Presonus to have this like "Ableton with Push" or "Integrate Maschine/KK" or users would ditch S1 until they did. They aren't doing this for the show page. Matter fact its barely any discussion in various studio one users group for the showpage. When they do an update to the showpage, and Ableton does a . update and drops a push 2 standalone let's see what people talk more about. Add FL Studio 21 when it drops, and Maschine updates. Or a new Logic X (which clearly 10.6 was focused on the beatmaker/producer).

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up forums or Facebook as some kind of litmus to how a company makes decisions or whether a feature is useful or not. It's not a popularity contest.

[lights]

I think that makes it more important than ever, so we are all ready to get out there when live performances resume next year (after the vaccine has been widely distributed).

I would have preferred something that is more suited to nonlinear music creation than for use in a live show.

You mean like scratch pads? They are already there. Or you can use the timeline and turn on the option of having the loop follow your current selection - right-click on the loop icon in the transport bar (I changed the hotkey and I can't remember what the original was). Doing that makes it work exactly like a pattern-based workflow. It's a really cool feature I only discovered recently (thank you, Gregor).

Could you point me towards Gregor’s Video/article that explains this in a bit more depth please ? Thanks.