Alias / Linked / Shared / Pooled Clips - are you using them?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Are you using alias / linked / shared / pooled clips?

Yes, all the time
21
35%
Yes, occasionally
8
13%
No, although my (main) DAW has it
17
28%
No, my (main) DAW does not have it
10
17%
I had no idea there's such a feature
4
7%
 
Total votes: 60

KVRist
113 posts since 2 Apr, 2018

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:18 am

I think S1 has a really good implementation of ghost clips compared to Ableton or FL (those are the only other DAWs I've used).It's incredibly easy to block out a track and then adjust especially with the variation feature. It works with you.

I feel like Ableton works against me. I'm amazed I finished anything with Ableton, going from S1 to and back to Ableton It felt like such a struggle to use the arrangement view in general. There is a lot to love with Ableton but the disconnect between clips in session view and arrangement view seems like a missed opportunity. Using session view as proper clip pool (clips edited in session view update in arrangement view) would be so great. Not everyone is in to that and I get it. Just my 2 cents.

KVRian
741 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:34 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:16 am
All these people using FL Studio without any of those issues must be super-human. Maybe the difference is that in FL, the list of patterns is quite front-and-center and you actually learn to keep it tidy. Both Bitwig and Live have a clip launcher that could just as easily serve as a clip manager.

Anyway, I should drop out of this topic, reading about people "not being convinced" about a fundamental bread-and-butter DAW feature doesn't really feel like time well spent. :lol:
I know people like FLStudio but its not exactly the model of good UI/UX/DAW design imo. It's still basically a pattern sequencer at heart so that being its focus makes sense. Even so ImageLine has done a lot to breakaway from that workflow because it kind of doesn't always work with a traditional DAW workflow. So over the years they've added features to mitigate the issue a bit.

Bitwig and Live even with the clip launcher are still tape based sequencers at heart. Clips aren't patterns, they are clips.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

10358 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:40 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:16 am
Anyway, I should drop out of this topic, reading about people "not being convinced" about a fundamental bread-and-butter DAW feature doesn't really feel like time well spent. :lol:
If a bread-and-butter DAW feature is badly implemented, then no wonder people don't (find a way to) use it and are not convinced :shrug:

I would think this is obvious?
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

10358 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:43 am

[nx] wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:18 am
I think S1 has a really good implementation of ghost clips compared to Ableton or FL (those are the only other DAWs I've used).It's incredibly easy to block out a track and then adjust especially with the variation feature. It works with you.
Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
229 posts since 26 Sep, 2007

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:03 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:40 am
If a bread-and-butter DAW feature is badly implemented, then no wonder people don't (find a way to) use it and are not convinced :shrug:

I would think this is obvious?
I called it bread-and-butter because I don't believe it's actually very controversial or commonly badly implemented at all, at least among normal users who just get on with things. I just get tired of "defending" a feature that I know would be very useful to me against a load of mostly theoretical concern and "I don't need it so neither do you".
apoclypse wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:34 am
I know people like FLStudio but its not exactly the model of good UI/UX/DAW design imo.
FL's UX got 99 problems, but it being pattern-based ain't one.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

10358 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:13 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:03 am
...I just get tired of "defending" a feature that I know would be very useful to me against a load of mostly theoretical concern and "I don't need it so neither do you".
You & me both :hug:
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF
20147 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:43 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:03 am
I called it bread-and-butter
And yet Ableton Live, the best supported DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in Live anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.

KVRist
229 posts since 26 Sep, 2007

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:45 am

Yeah, maybe, so what was your point again? 🥱

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KVRAF
20147 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:53 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:45 am
Yeah, maybe, so what was your point again? 🥱
Here ya go... from my previous post:

"One thing about aliased clips, it's too easy to edit a clip and accidentally edit something one didn't intend to. It is a feature that forces me to spend mental energy keeping track of what is linked to what. Were I a developer I would look for other ways to implement the basic concept of editing multiple clips at once that didn't put that burden on the user and was more fluid."

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

10358 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:54 am

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:43 am
Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:03 am
I called it bread-and-butter
And yet Ableton Live, the best supported DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in Live anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.
Most great music out there also doesn't use MPE or per-voice (or any, for that matter...) modulators, so let's ask Bitwig devs to cut them out, too? ;)
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
229 posts since 26 Sep, 2007

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:04 am

It's actually a great quote, very flexible. People should use it to respond to EVERY feature request posted anywhere. Would make discussions on KVR so much more productive.

Here's a template:
And yet [[insert random DAW here]], the [[insert random superlative]] DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in it anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.

KVRist
113 posts since 2 Apr, 2018

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:09 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:43 am
Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?
Sorry I mean shared Clips. I think there is a little picture of a ghost when activate it in S1 so I got the terminology mixed up.

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KVRAF
20147 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:18 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:54 am

Most great music out there also doesn't use MPE or per-voice (or any, for that matter...) modulators, so let's ask Bitwig devs to cut them out, too? ;)
Nobody suggested a feature be cut...

I said I think the current general implementation of aliased clips has drawbacks, gave a couple examples, and said I think there is a better way to do something with the same basic purpose waiting to be discovered, implemented.
Last edited by pdxindy on Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
20147 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:31 am

Dionysos wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:04 am
It's actually a great quote, very flexible. People should use it to respond to EVERY feature request posted anywhere. Would make discussions on KVR so much more productive.
Do you take pleasure in putting people down? It seems like it from your posts.

KVRian
741 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:32 am

[nx] wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:09 am
antic604 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:43 am
Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?
Sorry I mean shared Clips. I think there is a little picture of a ghost when activate it in S1 so I got the terminology mixed up.
Yep. We call them ghost clips in S1 because of the icon but in other DAWs ghost clips mean something else.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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