Weird bounce behaviour in Studio One 5

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KVRAF
6918 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 am

Yes there is a problem when bouncing, but not when recording! Anyway, there is a bug definitely here.

In the image below you see the bounced track has escaped or maybe merged the first notes, because it sounds like a chord in spite of me not playing any chords!
When recording an audio track, it records normally without a problem:
S1 Bounce bug.jpg
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Studio One Pro v5, Cubase Pro 11, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRist
364 posts since 21 Nov, 2000 from Good Ol' Germany

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:38 am

*sigh*

I should have seen this coming. :(

I've been in touch with the support back in January:

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/requests/640617 (don't know if you have public access to the tickets)

But after a few days they closed my ticket, because they considered my desperate trial&error attempts to solve it (by adjusting configuration params, which in a few cases worked somehow) as "viable workaround". :dog: And I was far too frustrated with this outcome to reopen the ticket and continue arguing.

But in fact: it still doesn't work (at least for me). Bouncing external hardware Midi to Audio is broken - no matter which of my devices I try (different input devices, different Midi interfaces).

And even more strange: the "gap" at the beginning depends on song BPM!

Bildschirmfoto 2021-01-03 um 11.41.19.png

The good news: the bug doesn't occur when doing a mixdown. But this cannot be the "solution".
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KVRian

Topic Starter

1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:36 am

EnGee wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 am
Yes there is a problem when bouncing, but not when recording! Anyway, there is a bug definitely here.

In the image below you see the bounced track has escaped or maybe merged the first notes, because it sounds like a chord in spite of me not playing any chords!
When recording an audio track, it records normally without a problem:

S1 Bounce bug.jpg
Your image also shows that recorded audio is properly latency compensated, while the bounced audio is not. I've experienced the same behaviour here.

KVRian

Topic Starter

1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:43 am

Crossinger wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:38 am
But in fact: it still doesn't work (at least for me). Bouncing external hardware Midi to Audio is broken - no matter which of my devices I try (different input devices, different Midi interfaces).

And even more strange: the "gap" at the beginning depends on song BPM!
The simpest workaround is to leave a 1 bar empty gap at the beginning of the timeline, so basically start your song at 2.1.1. instead of 1.1.1. For some reason bouncing then works properly.

KVRAF
6918 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:11 pm

Reefius wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:36 am
EnGee wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 am
Yes there is a problem when bouncing, but not when recording! Anyway, there is a bug definitely here.

In the image below you see the bounced track has escaped or maybe merged the first notes, because it sounds like a chord in spite of me not playing any chords!
When recording an audio track, it records normally without a problem:

S1 Bounce bug.jpg
Your image also shows that recorded audio is properly latency compensated, while the bounced audio is not. I've experienced the same behaviour here.
Yes you are right. Man! I really don't know. How many hidden midi bugs are there in S1? I work mainly with Midi (even with an external module) and I can't tolerate such bugs! My trust in S1 Midi is not high to be honest.
Let's see the other two options I have :)
Studio One Pro v5, Cubase Pro 11, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRAF
2644 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:03 am

Midi in S1 (v4.6 here) is just bad. Timing-wise. My stuff gets recorded as played early when I'm clearly playing on or behind the bit.

For maybe 12ms or so. I just don't trust it anymore.

K

KVRian

Topic Starter

1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:47 am

Just got a reply from Presonus support, they blame it on the MIDI protocol and I should just start my songs at 2.1.1 instead of 1.1.1... :roll:

This is one of the reasons why I hate contacting any support desk, cause they always play the blame game. I guess these people are trained to NEVER admit the problem is on their end.

KVRAF
2644 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:31 am

Their support just sucks. Plain and simple.

KVRist
364 posts since 21 Nov, 2000 from Good Ol' Germany

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:32 am

Reefius wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:47 am
Just got a reply from Presonus support, they blame it on the MIDI protocol and I should just start my songs at 2.1.1 instead of 1.1.1... :roll:
:tantrum:

User avatar
KVRAF
12680 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:45 am

Anyone remember in which version of Traktion they finally solved that first-note bug? That will give you an estimate...
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is back online!!

KVRist
364 posts since 21 Nov, 2000 from Good Ol' Germany

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:11 pm

BertKoor wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:45 am
Anyone remember in which version of Traktion they finally solved that first-note bug? That will give you an estimate...
The weird thing is: the first note is actually played, as you can see in my screenshot above. It just is not recorded from the very beginning.

Today I found another MIDI related bug (using the Arp MIDI fx with Mojito). Oh well, my confidence is fading :shrug:

User avatar
Suspended
4029 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm

soulata wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:03 am
Midi in S1 (v4.6 here) is just bad. Timing-wise. My stuff gets recorded as played early when I'm clearly playing on or behind the bit.

For maybe 12ms or so. I just don't trust it anymore.

K
Totally agree , it can’t understand why more people are affected by this .
This has been a long standing issue .
I think it’s presonus in house midi protocol ( look mum no midi )that causes this .
The problem is that they will never admit this .
Their whole midi engine is just not reliable , and it was their main selling feature .
No direct contact with the developers and their stupid ticket support system ( which automatically gets rejected after a few days because of inactivity ) made me stop using it ( haven’t sold it yet ..)
I am 100% back to renoise /architect
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRAF
6918 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:04 am

I just bought a new license of Reaper and tested the midi. It works flawlessly! I know I know! Reaper has a deep learning curve because mainly (for me) the workflow is messy, but at least it works without deal breakers with Midi! Also, they keep fixing/improving what's not good or buggy.

I thought also I got rid of the spikes in Cubase! But no! they are still there! So, it is over for me! I will spend my time between Reaper and Live 11 when released today. The only thing is that I have limited 3rd party effects (like Valhalla Vintage Reverb), but I use mostly 5 effects mainly (EQ, Compression, Limiter, Delay and Reverb). Those in Reaper are ok for me really (the limiter I use is the free TB CM limiter). I will wait, however, for few months before I sell S1 and Cubase! (Loosing money again :dog: )
Studio One Pro v5, Cubase Pro 11, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRist
34 posts since 19 May, 2015

Post Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:20 am

This is a very old issue. Rendering has been a hit and miss since v2. It just keeps screwing up renders randomly. Usually the first bar of audio like i some screens above in this thread, even if you start it later than bar1.
Ive reported this many times even send them projects to replicate but nothing was done. They just kept ignoring it. I gave up.

Also the accuracy of automation and MIDI CC is disastrous.Even worse with dropout protection enabled.(zipper noise on pitchbends)
If you need any detailed automation work stay away.

KVRAF
2644 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia

Post Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:35 am

Yeah, apparently fixing mistakes doesn't sell as much copies as the new shiny.

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