Weird bounce behaviour in Studio One 5

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
28130 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:45 am

My guess: It's low priority for them, with all the people producing in the box these days.

I wouldn't stop reporting it though.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
39 posts since 19 May, 2015

Post Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:48 am

I use only ITB stuff -no external processors or instruments. Still happened. The only solution was to use the record to another track principle.

KVRAF
28130 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:14 am

Is this Studio One 5 related? I don't remember ever having issues with bouncing...

Edit: I see now that what you report is related to external MIDI. I never use that.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
297 posts since 11 Dec, 2017

Post Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:09 pm

I use Aux channels for external instruments a lot. They're not latency compensated yet unfortunately. That's the simple answer to the question/issue.

KVRAF
6938 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:46 pm

I still hope in future fixes for such bugs. I'm leaving it to be covered with virtual dust now.
Cubase Pro 11, Bitwig 16, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes, PA, Softube and others.
Ryzen 5800x with Win10, MODX 6, AudioBox iTwo, KeyLab MK II, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:29 am

I'm pretty sure they will sort this out. The Aux thing is a brand new feature after all and we have not even had a significant update to S1 yet since it's inclusion. In my experience they always iron out bugs that exist and do so quite quickly too.

I have never had any problems with midi in Studio One. Always worked fine for me.

Couple of things to mention about Studio One midi -

1. In preferences there is a setting to offset midi recording in ms.

2. If quantise if acting weird make this macro and assign it to your default quantise key command (q)
- Musical Function|Freeze Quantize
- Event|Quantize

Studio One has a thing where it remembers the original note positions and grid of your midi material so if you change the swing or grid and try to do quantise things can align incorrectly. It is quite annoying. The macro above basically tells S1, reference where everything is right now, and quantise to the grid.

Anyway, getting off the point of your problem... The Aux bounce bug.... Seems like a pain. Hopefully they sort it out for the next update. Crappy work arounds are not good enough to be honest.

KVRian
518 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:09 am

There were issues with Midi in S1 for a while but since Admiral Bumblebee put then on blast they fixed it in 5.1. Now S1 records what I played in versus me always wondering if my playing was that bad because midi would be all over the place in pre 5.1. For the audio issue I've been noticing weird behavior with bounce to audio for quite some time, it doesn't always work as expected. I really wish Presonus would just take one release to just fix all the pending bugs they have in the DAW that haven't been addressed.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:48 am

I never use hardware so I did overlook that I must admit. I've been purely ITB for ages now. Obviously some people use external gear so that is something to be aware about. Presonus will be working on it though, I bet. The midi Jitter problem that was being called out; fixed in S1 v5.1 as you mentioned. Bumblebees conclusion to S1 now is that S1 proved an excellent result all-round... As far as the jitter thing is concerned. It's crazy to see that Pro Tools, FL Studio, and even Cubase all still have jitter problems. Again though, jitter is never something I've ever noticed because I only use plugins.

The Aux bug though, if that's not fixed in the next .5 update I'd be a bit disappointed. I can't see them ignoring it tbh. Once that is sorted hopefully it's happy days all round.

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KVRAF
4037 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:48 pm

apoclypse wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:09 am
There were issues with Midi in S1 for a while but since Admiral Bumblebee put then on blast they fixed it in 5.1. Now S1 records what I played in versus me always wondering if my playing was that bad because midi would be all over the place in pre 5.1. For the audio issue I've been noticing weird behavior with bounce to audio for quite some time, it doesn't always work as expected. I really wish Presonus would just take one release to just fix all the pending bugs they have in the DAW that haven't been addressed.
The changelog doesn’t say anything about improved midi timing in 5.1
I am well aware about adm. Bumblebee’s blog and stu-1 midi investigation .
However , I have a hard time believing that the developers all of a sudden fixed the midi issues because of him .
New reports are stilll coming in about midi recording being in-acccurate , they didn’t fix a thing .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:04 pm

Reefius wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:56 pm
I'm having this weird issue when bouncing anything from my hardware synths when the MIDI starts at 1.1.1, it is always missing the first 2 beats. If I move the same MIDI to the right on the timeline then it bounces perfectly.


S1.jpg


PS: I'm not using the Crave's internal sequencer, this is MIDI from S1 playing.
If you use hardware synths you shouldn't start your songs at 1.1.1.
I start every project at 17.1.1.And when I bounce I launch the recording one or two bars before the midi clip.

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:12 pm

benmcc wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:48 am
I never use hardware so I did overlook that I must admit. I've been purely ITB for ages now. Obviously some people use external gear so that is something to be aware about. Presonus will be working on it though, I bet. The midi Jitter problem that was being called out; fixed in S1 v5.1 as you mentioned. Bumblebees conclusion to S1 now is that S1 proved an excellent result all-round... As far as the jitter thing is concerned. It's crazy to see that Pro Tools, FL Studio, and even Cubase all still have jitter problems. Again though, jitter is never something I've ever noticed because I only use plugins.

The Aux bug though, if that's not fixed in the next .5 update I'd be a bit disappointed. I can't see them ignoring it tbh. Once that is sorted hopefully it's happy days all round.
I did many tests using Cubase,Live,S1,Reaper,Bitwig and none of them was accurate in timing with external hardware synths.Same problems.I think the problem is as much the synths as the computer(connected with Midi DIN or USB,same problem).

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:21 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm
soulata wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:03 am
Midi in S1 (v4.6 here) is just bad. Timing-wise. My stuff gets recorded as played early when I'm clearly playing on or behind the bit.

For maybe 12ms or so. I just don't trust it anymore.

K
Totally agree , it can’t understand why more people are affected by this .
This has been a long standing issue .
I think it’s presonus in house midi protocol ( look mum no midi )that causes this .
The problem is that they will never admit this .
Their whole midi engine is just not reliable , and it was their main selling feature .
No direct contact with the developers and their stupid ticket support system ( which automatically gets rejected after a few days because of inactivity ) made me stop using it ( haven’t sold it yet ..)
I am 100% back to renoise /architect
Is the midi more precise with Renoise?

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:11 am

Well, I've been using S1 for years and it's always been a very solid DAW for me making Dance Music. Recording midi works fine, always has for me, but if it's off for you then there is something else giving you the problem. Also, there is a setting in preferences to offset midi recording to whatever time(ms) you need. Sorted.

Almost every other DAW I have used had terrible midi recording. Cubase, was always off and there was no way to offset it either. Report bugs, make forum posts to Steinberg and see how far that gets you. I gave up after being a Cubase user between versions 4 and 9.5.

That Bumblebee guy going on about jitter... just to be clear, he is talking about sending midi out of your computer, into some form of external midi instrument (drum machine, hardware synth, whatever) and then recording the audio back into the computer. NOT just midi recording in normal internal use. Midi recording inside Studio One works fine, it always has.

Also, Studio One 5.1 release note: - Block size is added to Recording Offset
That basically means, bumbles jitter problem, sorted. As far as I can see. He certainly now says that S1 jitter is no longer an issue. So, that's that.

I've reported bugs to the Studio One devs before. One was a channel show/hide console bug and another was a groove clearing bug. On the next release version they had sorted both of my reports. I checked and they really did. Along with a huge list of other stuff. They are always working on these things, and adding great features at the same time. It's a lot of work for such a small team of people.

The AUX channel recording bug will hopefully get sorted in the next release. In the mean time, just don't start from point zero in your track. Give the DAW and the hardware a little bit of time to shake hands before they start talking to each other. Move everything in a couple of bars and do your recording. It's a very simple workaround for now and hardly a DAW deal breaker.

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KVRian
586 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:26 am

i agree presonus sucks at midi... and their usual response to problems are if it can't be duplicated 100% of the time by them then it is NOT their problem. they push it off on the end user as it is their system that is the cause. but if it CAN be duplicated and it is not an easy fix they 'may' offer a workaround but never seem to fix old bugs. this problem of missing notes in midi on position 1.1.1 has been around like was said since the advent of v2 (where i jumped in) if not before and i assume it has ALWAYS been a problem and they refuse to fix it... or CAN'T fix it lol

there is also a problem with 1.1.1 with audio.. it is not just midi. if you render/print something especially if it has a tail like on reverb it seems to loop record back and you get a big pop or noise at the very beginning of that section being dumped. for about 6 years or more their remedy is... start @ 2.1.1 which is just a workaround. again refusing to face the fact their product is flawed. i have never seen this with other DAWs midi or audio... just S1. and i am NOT talking about the little clicks you get when the waveform starts or ends above or below unity. this is entirely something different... again it is like it loops the record head back to the beginning (probably related to how it renders using what is within the loop range markers) and it is engaged/active rewriting again on the rendered copy.

so you can beat your head against the wall or just start everything from 2.1.1... and even then you may get a blip now and again. don't expect presonus to fix this anytime soon. their support and the way the company is run is why i have stopped upgrading. i am still on 4.6.2 pro and i don't foresee me putting any more money into that company. cheers

Sunset Babies all got rabies but I got my shots


KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:37 am

Leaving space at the start of your track is just common practice really. Has been for all DAWs for years. Mastering engineers much prefer some short silence before the stereo stem so they have breathing space for any dynamics processing that is going to be applied. Load up a track on a CDJ that has zero silence at the start and you get a partially cut off beat. Everybody who makes music professionally leaves a bit of space at the start of the track. This is just basic 101 production stuff.

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