Reason 12 announced

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antic604 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:52 am
If I like something and the direction I see it develops in aligns with my interests & needs then I'm willing to give the dev the benefit of the doubt and extrapolate into the future...

Perhaps had I started with Reason 6 or 8 maybe I'd see it coming, but I came in at 10.x which - in hindsight - looks like a brief period of Reason rejuvenation.
Maybe 12.1 will be the start of Reason rejuvenation as you want it...I suspect if they had not done something radical to attract new users with 12 they would have gone the way of Cakewalk. Once they have the user base they can build...they have investors to keep happy.

'Extrapolate into the future'...risky! I remember waiting for Alchemy 2 with my dozens of purchased sound banks on my PC....

Personally, I invest predominantly in hardware which is rarely updated and you buy it 'for what it is', you can buy so much cool hardware with the money you save if you if you get of the virtual train with it's constant 'feed me' update marketing plans (all of them!!)

(I just bought a Novation Summit and have been having the most fun sequencing it with my little Eurorack Hermod with a 1 inch screen! All DAWS and Virtual instruments feel like cheating to me, but at least Reason looks like hardware :D)
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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EnochLight wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:40 am
jens wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:02 am Well, then you've been doing it wrong all the time and you learned something new - good for you.
Am I? You’re the one who’s clearly disappointed in what you got for your purchase. Maybe revisit your approach in the future.

That shitty sort of blame-shifting is as dumb and lame as it is old. I yawn in your general direction.
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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RS has made it rather clear that they're are a separate entity from Propellerhead with an entirely different leadership. This idea that there is some continuity between RS and Propellerhead in this sense, that all their actions with the RRP and subscription etc was basically their hand being forced by a pressing economic crisis - is a flawed one. IMO a more likely scenario is that Propellerhead sold out simply because it was getting too cumbersome to go forward, the DAW needed too much work and the RE eco system was not in great shape etc, so not necessarily a pressing economic crisis forcing their hand, but rather the path of least resistance for the previous owners/leadership or something not entirely unlike that. Or perhaps not. I do have a vague memory of seeing some actual data on their economic situation on reasontalk, but i'm not 100% sure i remember accurately what the conclusion was so i'll leave that open.

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EnochLight wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:19 pm
Eclectrophonic wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:38 am What gets me is, they said at the beginning of the Reason 11 cycle (in response to not many feature's being added (7 in total and apart from curved automation and audio crossfades all were basic implementations that should have been in the daw 4 or 5 versions ago) is they said, there will be point updates (meaning feature's will be added) so be patient. Only 1 feature in the 11 cycle was added in 3 point updates. During that time, Friktion and Algoritm were released. I don't want to sound greedy or ungrateful but if you're going to put all those man hours into creating 2 top quality synths and not put any feature's into the actual daw, shouldn't they have been free (or certainly half price or less) for all 11 users? Will admit, does sound greedy but they should have added at least 4 or 5 workflow enhancements in the 3 point updates. We still can't join midi notes or select all clips on a track, nor can we slice by song position pointer and we don't have note displays. Really basic ease of life implementations.
Counterpoint: I’m not sure how anyone could consider a company like this “greedy”, when they certainly have to choose a careful balance between actually creating products they can sell for revenue (to keep the company profitable and thus SURVIVE) and giving away free stuff that generates little to no additional revenue?

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.
I was talking "greedy" from my perspective (as in me being greedy) wanting Friktion and Algoritm for free during the 11 cycle and you don't think anything's missing from Reason in terms of functionality to not think anything needed adding in 11? I can only say, "wow" to that lol! I've counted 140 features which are present in other daws before now. Not saying you necessarily need all those feature's but I could argue about 50 are necessary with some being ease of life improvements such as joining midi notes, note displays, linked clips and automation, midi chase, track folders and create your own shortcuts etc. After using Reaper with the RRP now for 18 months, it does feel years ahead in terms of functionality and ease of use but on the other side of the coin, the gui isn't as nice and has no decent synths and presets as stock.

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Yes, this is the trade off - Studio One is my primary DAW as I mainly record live instruments via a 32 input mixer. It does everything I want, I cant think of a feature I need adding (in fact the updates are now just becoming unnecessary bloat AFAIAK). I am sure Cubase or Reaper would be the same, I just happen to use S1...it is very functional, but other DAWS offer 'different' ways of working and different tools.

My other 'DAWS' (Live, Bitwig and Reason etc) I use like instruments, groove boxes, sound design tools - whatever you want to call it- I think they are fantastic at this, I love this type of work in hardware (Elektron, MPC, Euorack, hardware Trackers) and just limiting yourself to (for example) the Reason rack as an instrument with some pattern switching from the sequencer can be very inspiring.

There are so many ways to use things and so many options, don't wait for updates- use what works for you 'now'!
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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machine_spirit wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:55 am The Reason 11-12 update window was undeniably poor value.
Remarkably, I actually agree with you on this. Version 12 basically brings (that we know of): a new sampler (Mimic), a new Combinator, updated hi-res graphics (this should have been a free point update IMHO) and a faster browser (also feel this should have been a free point update). So from my perspective, just a new sampler and a new Combinator. I don't feel that's worthy of a full version upgrade, IMHO. In a case like this, I actually hope that 12.x brings a ton more over its life, but I suspect that most of these things will only be given to R+ subscribers. Will be interesting to see how 12.x pans out after official release.
jens wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:46 pm That shitty sort of blame-shifting is as dumb and lame as it is old. I yawn in your general direction.
That's adorable. As I said, you do you, friend.
SLiC wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:39 pm Yes, this is the trade off - Studio One is my primary DAW as I mainly record live instruments via a 32 input mixer. It does everything I want, I cant think of a feature I need adding
Studio One is my secondary DAW, but I'm still on 4.x. Really tempted to pick up 5.0, though. I just feel like 6 might be around the corner, so I'm holding out.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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EnochLight wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:14 pm...I actually hope that 12.x brings a ton more over its life but I suspect that most of these things will only be given to R+ subscribers. Will be interesting to see how 12.x pans out after official release.
Why are you saying that? Have they even indicated that there will not be feature-parity between perpetual license and R+ (other than beta channel)?
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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EnochLight wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:14 pmStudio One is my secondary DAW, but I'm still on 4.x. Really tempted to pick up 5.0, though. I just feel like 6 might be around the corner, so I'm holding out.
They're on a 2-year cycle, so I wouldn't expect v6 earlier than middle of next year (5.0 came out in July 2020).
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:17 pm Why are you saying that? Have they even indicated that there will not be feature-parity between perpetual license and R+ (other than beta channel)?
No, but it certainly would make R+ subs an even better "deal". I honestly don't know how it will play out, hence my "it will be interesting to see" comment. :party:
antic604 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:18 pm They're on a 2-year cycle, so I wouldn't expect v6 earlier than middle of next year (5.0 came out in July 2020).
That's good to know. I can wait, then. :tu:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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machine_spirit wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:55 am The Reason 11-12 update window was undeniably poor value.
Do we even know what the 11-12 update price is yet?

I am assuming it cant be more than 129 (as you can but the 11 upgrade for that now and get 12 free)

Skipping a few updates always yields the best value (and on advantage of having multiple DAWS, you don't feel like you have to keep them all up to date!). I went from Live 9 to 11 in a 40% off sale and it was like a new DAW, bit I was never tempted to go from 9 to 10...If the updates don't impress you much, just skip it!

As for S1 6, as I said earlier, I'm not sure what can be added/improved much but if they start adding stupid stuff and cluttering everything up I may give it a miss- I am still not convinced I need a show page, it actually puts me off S1 just having the tab! More isn't always better....
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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EnochLight wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:14 pm Remarkably, I actually agree with you on this. Version 12 basically brings (that we know of): a new sampler (Mimic), a new Combinator, updated hi-res graphics (this should have been a free point update IMHO) and a faster browser (also feel this should have been a free point update). So from my perspective, just a new sampler and a new Combinator. I don't feel that's worthy of a full version upgrade, IMHO. In a case like this, I actually hope that 12.x brings a ton more over its life, but I suspect that most of these things will only be given to R+ subscribers. Will be interesting to see how 12.x pans out after official release.
antic604 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:17 pm Why are you saying that? Have they even indicated that there will not be feature-parity between perpetual license and R+ (other than beta channel)?
IMO they way they dealt with the Suite version and how singularly they're are pushing for subscription does not imply a bright future for the perpetual license. Reason 11 should have gotten high-res support/GPU acceleration for sure, that would've made me significantly less salty at least. How much of that update window was spent on high-res support?
jens wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:46 pm That shitty sort of blame-shifting is as dumb and lame as it is old. I yawn in your general direction.
EnochLight wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:14 pm That's adorable. As I said, you do you, friend.
I think you're both stuck in a "last word" loop so i'm gonna help you out by distracting you with boobs (o )( o)

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machine_spirit wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:01 pm I think you're both stuck in a "last word" loop so i'm gonna help you out by distracting you with boobs (o )( o)
:hyper: :lol:
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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machine_spirit wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:01 pm so i'm gonna help you out by distracting you with boobs (o )( o)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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this whole thread has turned into a last word loop. more boobs, please.

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SLiC wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:35 pm Do we even know what the 11-12 update price is yet?
I am assuming it cant be more than 129 (as you can but the 11 upgrade for that now and get 12 free)

Skipping a few updates always yields the best value (and on advantage of having multiple DAWS, you don't feel like you have to keep them all up to date!). I went from Live 9 to 11 in a 40% off sale and it was like a new DAW, bit I was never tempted to go from 9 to 10...If the updates don't impress you much, just skip it!
I think people like me who bought 11 for the DAW ended up in a particularly bad position as far as upgrades go. Any other major DAW would've provided more for the money spent with the "free" updates. Others got offers like that "buy 11 and get 12 for free". But we who started out with Reason 11 were left with little to nothing to soften the blow from the RRP focus and subscription etc.
On the other hand there wasn't alot of time for us to get invested either but now we're getting real cynical...

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