Challenge - who has the most (paid) and actively used DAWs ?

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[THE INTRANCER]

Reason was my main DAW for 13 years then moved to Studio One... 2, 3, 4, / 4.6., don't need the other DAWs, they are more of a curiosity, to fill a bit of time.

[BONES]

I agree I don't like being put in a box when making music a blank canvas and possibility is more my lane. I'm not knocking templates if you work in a specific genre of music and need to pump out music constantly they get you'll get there faster with templates than without.

That is something I would absolutely knock because the very concept is appalling.

I have a created a few templates myself that are pretty complete but never really use them. I know I'm repeating processes that I do in pretty much every DAW and it's inefficient on my part but that's my process.

I'm the same. It's about priorities and efficiency should never be more important than creativity. There are definitely things I always do the same way, though, so what I've done in S1 is to make default presets for certain things. e.g. I always boost the krap out of the bottom end of my drum mix, so the default preset for ProEQ2 has the bass boosted +12dB and I usually only need to make a few tweaks from there. I always put a limiter on the Master so I suppose I could make a template with that but it hardly seems worth the effort when it's just a right-click away.

I'm inspired by sounds not melody or chords.

Yeah, me too. Well, sort of. I don't really do melody or chords, it's mostly about rhythms and riffs for us. I'm lucky, though, because my bandmate is pretty much the opposite of that, or he used to be. For our first three albums, he basically used the exact same patches from the exact same instruments in everything, so a lot of my job was finding sounds for it all. These days the things he hands me tend to be more complete, probably because we've splurged on a lot of VSTi in the last few years, although I am usually the one who has to come up with a chorus (or verse) as his stuff tends to be very "straight line".

More often than not a patch (a preset or one I've made) will inspire whole song for me.

That's mostly the case for me, too. The sound will lead me down a certain path but that's just getting an idea started. By the time it's a song I'll have pulled ideas from all over the place. As a general rule, I like a song to have three separate "ideas" within it and I often combine things I've been doing separately into a single song to get there. An idea can be a simple riff or a distinctive drum pattern but I like to have three things for listeners to grab onto so it (hopefully) doesn't get too boring or repetitive.

For example Bitwig's Piano Roll isn't my cup and my SLMK3 works amazingly with it, so I'm more likely to play in something with my controller until I get it right. The SLMK3 doesn't work as well with Studio One or Logic so I tend to use it less there.

I never, ever play anything in, I always enter it into the piano roll with my mouse. I'd have to look up how to record MIDI in either Studio One or Cubase.

I've used pretty much every DAW there is out there now. If I haven't found it yet, I'm never going to find it.

My point is that the time you spent learning each of them might have been better spent learning just one, inside-out. Doing that may have lead you to ways of overcoming those obstacles that you find in each of the hosts you use. e.g. You might have found a way to use your SL in S1 as well as it works in Bitwig. That would always be in the back of my mind if I was jumping from one host to another all the time because in my professional life it always holds true - I can use any of half-a-dozen different applications to get my work done but I'll pretty much always do a better job if I get to use the one I know best, because instead of doing things the only way I know how, I am able to choose the best of the several different ways there always are to get to the result.

I don't like being beholden to one company.

Yet you work on a Mac and use Apple's DAW.

If I want to move elsewhere I can with very little impact to my workflow or musical output. Whether you believe that or not is not really my concern.

It should be because it's a pretty arrogant assumption. I get better every day on any tool I work with. If you think you've stopped learning or there is no point in diving deeper into one host at the possible expense or working with another, that is definitely your loss.

[apoclypse]

I don't like being beholden to one company.

Yet you work on a Mac and use Apple's DAW.

I use Apple because I prefer macOS over Windows (I just think it's a more stable better built OS but I don't want to turn this into a Mac vs Windows debate) its really that simple for me. However my primary DAW is Studio One and I have a PC that I built that I run it on as well as Live and Bitwig. It's my "as in case something goes wrong" machine. The only thing that doesn't fully work is my TB audio interface, but I've bought a TB card for that machine and it's just a matter of time.

It should be because it's a pretty arrogant assumption. I get better every day on any tool I work with. If you think you've stopped learning or there is no point in diving deeper into one host at the possible expense or working with another, that is definitely your loss.

Not necessarily. I'm pretty knowledgeable on S1 and Logic as a long time user of both. That may sound arrogant but I've taught Logic and Studio One to others, I'm know how to use them fairly well. I'm also the type that likes to read manuals so before I even use a tool I read as much as I can about it. Look at as many videos as I can, learn as much as I can from forums. That's just my process. Anytime there is an update I'm watching videos or reading manuals if there are any.

Learning one DAW vs another is not some exclusive thing. If you have the time or inclination it's just another learning experience. I've learned more from moving a project across DAWs than anything else because in trying to do what I've done in another DAW I can more easily learn what the limitations are or what are the strengths of the other one. But overall I agree with you. It's just what I find fun or inspiring when making music. My process is not for everyone.

When I first moved to S1 I quickly learned how limited it was (at the time) compared to Logic. My choices was either learn the quirks or go back to Logic (which I didn't want to do at the time). I chose the former as I was willing to just learn it rather than focus on what it couldn't do. Don't get me wrong when I first bought S1 I didn't touch it for a good 6 months because I hated the fact that it wasn't Logic but then it clicked and it's probably still my favorite DAW and my go to. But S1 is no perfect and sometimes I need to go elsewhere to clear out the frustration of having to deal with S1's bugginess.

[melomood]

Helping the poor? How many poor even have the time or tools to code music software?

Come again! Eh? Very cryptic.

Not sure if I deciphered your low value low effort post there, correctly, but let me give it a go. I'm sure you aren't having a go at me. But I'm kind of thinking you are maybe implying something by the amount of software I got. Happy Loggys if wrong.

I help the poor. I am poor myself. Poverty comes in many forms. Financial poverty is just one of them. Poverty of experience is probably the most deadly and it's why some with more money than others don't do as well as those who are worse off.

I give my time. For free. All poor people can have this. It costs them nothing. It enriches their life. I do it all the time here on KVR, in case anyone didn't notice. It's why I do it.

The music software I bought, I pay back with reviews, tutorials, templates, song examples. This helps the developers sell more software because more end users want to buy it. I don't get paid for it. I do it for free. To enrich the lives of others.

I'm certainly one who gives more than he takes.

I went without shoes and socks and life experiences to buy that software. There is no free lunch. But still I give back in the forms mentioned above. Some people PM me asking for certain things. I always answer positively and give them what they ask even though it takes me time. I make no money. Is this giving to the poor? No, and yes in a way. They want something I have got, and they do not pay me for it except for a 'thanks' sometimes (but not always).

Yet I am a very poor man. I live in utter poverty. But I still help those who I can, those much richer than me, often times. Poverty comes in many forms and is relative. And no matter how much I give of my time, my hard-learned experience, many just take me for a right c**t. That's ok. Read the Stoics, Epictetus especially. No man is never not blamed.

I hope I make a small difference to people's lives. To their richness of experience. I am in fact on the lookout for good people to leave my studio hardware to when I die. I would like to see it go to a good home. I will burn my dozens of guitars before I go and I will not let them get in to the hands of those that will make a profit. I want to see them make a difference in this world.

I wonder how many donate strings to African musicians, who not only can not afford real instruments, but certainly can not afford frivolities like strings to go on them. And here we argue like madmen over .10's or .09's.

It's easy to point the finger at those who we think have more than us. But many of the finger pointers do no more themselves than point fingers. In truth, it is hard to share, just like it is hard to volunteer to do work with vulnerable people. A lot of vested interests have that sewn up and they don't want anyone else muscling in on the action. I mean, some of those vulnerable old codger coffin dodgers might leave something to their charity right?

Who knows what charity I do. Who knows of the little old ladies I pick up at night because they have fallen. Of those I take a hearty soup to, which fills more their emotional loins than any hunger they might have in their belly. Who knows how much The Church didn't want me doing this, getting in on their action the way an Italian Mob Boss protects his rackets in New Joisey.

We do what we can. Most people do f**k all.

Do I envy those with an SSL desk and the space to put it in? Yes. But it's not bad envy. I feel happiness for them as is taught by the buddah, to feel happiness for those much more fortunate than ourselves.

I live a very sad little life, truth be told. I can't speak for anyone else here on this forum who posts on Xmas or New Year's Eve.

It would be foolish in the extreme to envy me for anything. I have very little in life apart from a few bits of hardware and a lot of software that I don't have a powerful enough computer to run them on.

Am I a bit blind? Am I a bit deaf? Do I have other disabilities? Mmmm...

And while I am a poor man, I also feel very rich. But not because of any material possession, be it in software or hardware.

That's probably enough for now. This post was not directed at you melomood.

Just a little rambling...

Who knows what you meant with your cryptic, low-effort post. No offence.

As for them coding software, well...


My experience is not exclusive. I'm not special. Many men like me have lived through the ages. Read enough books and you can recognize them. Still don't make me special. I'm just another mug. But if I am a mug, it may not be for the reasons you think!

No man that ever knocks on my door ever gets turned away.

Arguments about poverty and richness are so 'off the mark' when you look at life through this lens.

Most of us have 'enough' by this point. The greater question is: how much of it will we share with each other, to make the other's lives richer?

There isn't an emoticon in the world that ponders that greater question and can convey it.

That certainly was a mouthful. I could give f**k all how much software you buy. That line stuck out and I honestly wanted to know. I don't know of any people from poor neighborhoods that had access to the sort of education,environment & resources to become the developer of music production software

[fairlyclose]

I use Reaper for audio mainly, also as scratchpad because it loads so quickly. I tend not to use it for complex midi as I find Reaper becomes unstable and a bit of a mess with complex projects. Obviously Reaper is not really designed much at all so workflow requires lots of work and can get broken pretty easily. But for audio it is excellent.
Studio One for pieces that use both midi and audio, particularly the Melodyne integration for deriving midi from audio. Has some annoying limitations as far as generative midi stuff goes - would love them to not make such a hard distinction between midi instruments and midi effects - that makes no sense musically at all. But mostly S1 has a very coherent and well thought out design.
Bitwig for fun generative things although less so lately. I am not looking to update from V3 at the moment as Bitwig seems to cover most of what I want it for now. No doubt that will change.
FL Studio I bought at one stage but never got into it - I would sell it if that was allowed. It is a powerful environment but just did not suit.

[juno987654321]

It's easy to point the finger at those who we think have more than us. But many of the finger pointers do no more themselves than point fingers. In truth, it is hard to share, just like it is hard to volunteer to do work with vulnerable people. A lot of vested interests have that sewn up and they don't want anyone else muscling in on the action. I mean, some of those vulnerable old codger coffin dodgers might leave something to their charity right?

[...]

And while I am a poor man, I also feel very rich. But not because of any material possession, be it in software or hardware.

[...]

The greater question is: how much of it will we share with each other, to make the other's lives richer?

I like some of your thoughts.

I can't help but always feel close to laughing if someone tries to show off with how much he or she "possesses" or falls into the trap of competing with others about such trivialities.
The more you possess the more you WILL lose again and BE possessed - by the devil, by a narrow heart and mind! Little boys that won't ever realize a thing about what life is all about!...

"I've been searching for riches I had all the time
FINDING OUT happiness is just a state of mind."
(F.P.I. Project)

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[juno987654321]

You're so self critical! That's so cool! I wish more people were like that. Isn't that what really matters in the end? You know so much more than I and vice versa – in all kinds of fields, and you're still willing to explore new things, change things. Wow! You still haven't become stiff and rigid while „growing up“? Some of your comments seemed noble in mind which is the only reason why I felt like picking out some of those and commenting a bit on them. Initially it was just the wicker joke that made me even read more of the thread which would have otherwise just been too boring to me to continue reading, but then this had made me laugh heartily. It just came at the right place as a witty and virtually called for remark. It was like pronouncing exactly what more or less had preconsciously occupied my own mind. I like it when things are being put into perspective so then I was just expanding a bit on its questioning the sense or nonsense of the given thread. And you responded quite nicely to both melomood and me which is not always a given or to be expected in general. I've had people respond in ways that made me go WTF? How much could you misunderstand, attack or distort someone's good-willed messages? Being self critical is the hardest thing EVER! I know that from myself but I'm constantly working on it, trying to be open, though not too widely so that you might just get lost, but still...

[vurt]

That certainly was a mouthful. I could give f**k all how much software you buy. That line stuck out and I honestly wanted to know. I don't know of any people from poor neighborhoods that had access to the sort of education,environment & resources to become the developer of music production software

That certainly was a mouthful. I could give f**k all how much software you buy. That line stuck out and I honestly wanted to know. I don't know of any people from poor neighborhoods that had access to the sort of education,environment & resources to become the developer of music production software

Yeah, I thought so. Tells me all I need to know.


That certainly was a mouthful.

Yeah, belittle me because I took the time to respond to you.


I could give f**k all how much software you buy.

Yet, you do!


That line stuck out and I honestly wanted to know.

What line? What are you talking about?


I don't know of any people from poor neighborhoods that had access to the sort of education,environment & resources to become the developer of music production software

Er, neither do I.


Still you do not communicate your point. Just anger spilling out of your gills in an incoherent fashion.

I get it, English is not your first language and you are spitting feathers of bitterness about some kind of perceived injustice, that I seem to be guilty of, or at least a proponent of with regard to the greater system.

In good faith, what is your question, what is your accusation even?

Have the courage of your convictions, you have come this far.

You seem to have something on your chest you would like to get off.

If you ask me a sensible question, I will give you a sensible answer.

If you just want to call me names, then do me the courtesy of at least saying why. I won't call for your ban or call you names back.

There's never been a better time for you to offload this thing you have been carrying on your back.

he wasn't even talking to you.

but hey, don't let us stop you...

[SamDi]

Scratchpads:

1: EnergyXT1
2: EnergyXT2
3: Podium 3
4: Tracktion (paid for but oldish version, I forget now)


Arrangers:

5: FLStudio
6: Ableton Live 11
7: Reason 11
8: Bitwig 3
9: Cubase Elements (latest version) x 2 seats.

Hm, that's interesting. I use Ableton and maybe in the future Bitwig as Scratchpad. What do you think make Energy, Podium or Tracktion excel over Ableton for that stage. Do they have some killer features?

On the other side I don't feel comfortable with Ableton, FL Studio or Bitwig for arranging. To be honest, arranging is my weakest point, so I don't feel comfortable with all DAWs I have ATM.

For an arranging workflow as I would need it, I would need a DAW which can easily give me:
-setting area markers easily (not click but shortcut) and get them also via shortcut
-beeing able then to shift these markes around and rearrange blocks in an ripple edit manner
-defining alternative scenarios and compare them easily
-getting some kind of "object orientated" approach, which means that I create a clip, then spread this clip over a song and when I make a change in this clip, it affects all the spreaded clips in this song. Also getting new clips by inheritance would be nice...

Unfortunately I don't know any DAW to get it like that...

[fairlyclose]

For an arranging workflow as I would need it, I would need a DAW which can easily give me:
-setting area markers easily (not click but shortcut) and get them also via shortcut
-beeing able then to shift these markes around and rearrange blocks in an ripple edit manner
-defining alternative scenarios and compare them easily
-getting some kind of "object orientated" approach, which means that I create a clip, then spread this clip over a song and when I make a change in this clip, it affects all the spreaded clips in this song. Also getting new clips by inheritance would be nice...

Unfortunately I don't know any DAW to get it like that...

I think Reaper will let you do all that

[SamDi]

For an arranging workflow as I would need it, I would need a DAW which can easily give me:
-setting area markers easily (not click but shortcut) and get them also via shortcut
-beeing able then to shift these markes around and rearrange blocks in an ripple edit manner
-defining alternative scenarios and compare them easily
-getting some kind of "object orientated" approach, which means that I create a clip, then spread this clip over a song and when I make a change in this clip, it affects all the spreaded clips in this song. Also getting new clips by inheritance would be nice...

Unfortunately I don't know any DAW to get it like that...

I think Reaper will let you do all that

For setting up region markers and moving them around, I know this. But having different arrangement scenarios and a pattern-based, object orientated aproach in Reaper? Did I miss anything?

[fairlyclose]

For an arranging workflow as I would need it, I would need a DAW which can easily give me:
-setting area markers easily (not click but shortcut) and get them also via shortcut
-beeing able then to shift these markes around and rearrange blocks in an ripple edit manner
-defining alternative scenarios and compare them easily
-getting some kind of "object orientated" approach, which means that I create a clip, then spread this clip over a song and when I make a change in this clip, it affects all the spreaded clips in this song. Also getting new clips by inheritance would be nice...

Unfortunately I don't know any DAW to get it like that...

I think Reaper will let you do all that

For setting up region markers and moving them around, I know this. But having different arrangement scenarios and a pattern-based, object orientated aproach in Reaper? Did I miss anything?

sorry I thought they had addressed ghost clip / inheritance ages ago for midi clips. It's a strange sort of program, Reaper, some things are great and others really show the disadvantage of piecemeal design