need more latency time: possible to increase buffer size above driver limits (on weak CPU)?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:37 am

Alright Bert, I'll install it and see if it could do any good. Just because you advised me so. :wink:
I'm open for new experiences.

BTW: If I should ever manage to save enough money for a "real computer" which ones are the real goodies for music productions (without any crackling noises at all any more)?
I heard people say that it's not as simple as: the more cores a CPU has, the better. Are there certain CPUs that are especially good for this?
(I hope that there's a simple answer to it...) :phones:
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

User avatar
sbj
KVRian
1238 posts since 17 Aug, 2012 from Old Zealand

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:02 am

Just in case your Powerplan in windows is on balanced you should change it to performance.

That will give you a boost.
Sound C loud
Band C amp
Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination - Mark Twain
-

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:49 am

juno987654321 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:37 am
BTW: If I should ever manage to save enough money for a "real computer" which ones are the real goodies for music productions (without any crackling noises at all any more)?
I heard people say that it's not as simple as: the more cores a CPU has, the better. Are there certain CPUs that are especially good for this?
(I hope that there's a simple answer to it...) :phones:
You are better off opening new thread for this, you could post Serum patch that your machine can barely handle and we can try to run that same patch and see how many instances we can get on our own machines without crackling, specify our specs and everything, than you can get idea about what you really need and how much that could cost.

I'm more than happy with my old i7 3770 machine, but on other hand Bitwig utilizes multi core amazingly, also U He synths I mostly use, so could be good call to test everything for you in Cubase too, maybe add Reaper too, so same patch, same synth and buffer settings in 2/3 different DAW's.

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:39 am

I've just tried something.
I installed Reaper and Serum on a different laptop (I'll call it laptop2) and the sounds worked without crackling. Then I thought Reaper was the reason and somehow worked wonders.
Next I tried it with Cubase on laptop2 but it also worked. :o
Now I'm left puzzled because I always thought that laptop2 is actually weaker in CPU (Intel Duo Core 2 GHz T7300) :o
as compared to the laptop I usually use, laptop1 (Intel Duo Core 2,6 GHZ, P8600), is it not? :o
The only difference seems to be that laptop2 has RAM of 4 GB compared to 3 GB on laptop1. :dog:
Could this be the real limitating factor that causes the crackling noises?
If so I could upgrade the RAM for laptop1? I think this is not so expensive and it can also be done for a laptop if I loosen a few screws and add some memory chip?
Or maybe it's because I have too many plugins installed on my laptop1?
Would that also cause trouble, even if they are not actively used on a track? I've noticed that DAWS always somehow load ALL plugins in the beginning? If this causes the problems can I make the DAW only load Serum in the beginning?

Next I'll try out some things for laptop1:
install Reaper and try alternative drivers like ASIO4all...
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:46 am

sbj wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:02 am
Just in case your Powerplan in windows is on balanced you should change it to performance.

That will give you a boost.
I'll check. I have no idea what that means yet.
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 am

Try LatencyMon on both laptops
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Also get them both tweaked a little
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... Windows-10
Last edited by Passing Bye on Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:58 am

Just checked the energy plan on windows first.
No, it's not on balanced. All good! It's set to Steinberg Audio Power. :tu:
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:03 am

juno987654321 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:39 am
Now I'm left puzzled because I always thought that laptop2 is actually weaker in CPU (Intel Duo Core 2 GHz T7300) :o
as compared to the laptop I usually use, laptop1 (Intel Duo Core 2,6 GHZ, P8600), is it not? :o
The only difference seems to be that laptop2 has RAM of 4 GB compared to 3 GB on laptop1. :dog:
My old Macbook had same specs and it's really weak thing for Serum, you can buy similarly speced machine as mine today second hand for 100-150 bucks that will run few circles around what you have now, i7 3770/8GB RAM/SSD.

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:35 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 am
Try LatencyMon on both laptops
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Also get them both tweaked a little
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... Windows-10
The Latency Monster said that I may experience drop outs and pops. :D
Then it suggested that I check power management which I already did above
or that I disable CPU throttling but I don't know about this:
CPU throttling is for temperature management and it's important so that the laptop won't get too hot and explode in my room, isn't it? It basically said I should do what they do when they pimp up the motor of a car.
I - I - I don't fully trust what that monster told me... :phones:
But I could try and tweak some things that won't change BIOS settings...
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:40 am

juno987654321 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:35 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 am
Try LatencyMon on both laptops
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Also get them both tweaked a little
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... Windows-10
The Latency Monster said that I may experience drop outs and pops. :D
Then it suggested that I check power management which I already did above
or that I disable CPU throttling but I don't know about this:
CPU throttling is for temperature management and it's important so that the laptop won't get too hot and explode in my room, isn't it? It basically said I should do what they do when they pimp up the motor of a car.
I - I - I don't fully trust what that monster told me... :phones:
But I could try and tweak some things that won't change BIOS settings...
Yeah, that's the downside with most of those old laptops, you can't squeeze from them as much as you could from same speced desktop machine with decent cooling, also most of them have horrible DPC performance.

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:30 pm

Reaper seems to be THE solution for my laptop1.
It allows for customizations on buffer sizes that users of other DAWs could only dream of. :o
I get clean chord and unison sounds up to a good maximum limit on a weak laptop (if the sounds aren't sustained for too long) - with latency times that I can set as high as I want them!
Everything else failed for laptop1, possibly due to the small RAM size of 3 GB? Drivers like ASIO4all result in the same annoying crackling sounds in Cubase. Reaper is the one in this very special case! :tu:

So I think I'll use Reaper for Serum patches with lots of unison voices from now on
(or switch on laptop2 for this purpose, but I didn't intend to use the 2nd one for experimenting with music and I feel reluctant to install everything anew and change laptops. It would take me days or weeks to do so...)

One more thing: :?:
Couldn't I just swap RAM chips if this is the source of the problem? They're both Dell Latitudes: E5500 with 3 GB RAM and D830 with 4 GB RAM. I've discovered a video that explains how simple it would be to change the chips... :?:
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:37 pm

RAM isn't the source of the problem and those machines can't handle more than 4GB of RAM anyways, dunno, if you are that broke, for 50-70 bucks you can get second hand i5 2500 machine that still runs circles around what you have and will serve you great.

Reaper is the king for low spec machines!

KVRAF
29228 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:42 pm

I'd also consider upgrading. More RAM is not the solution to your problem. The problem is your CPU.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

User avatar
KVRist

Topic Starter

443 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:58 am

Reaper is the king for my laptop and my laptop is still good enough!
I'll try to swap the RAM chips, too, and tweak the laptop a bit more.

Upgrading / buying new stuff to me is the cheapest solution. I will buy a good used computer later on anyways. This thread was about finding the best problem solving solutions in the given difficult circumstances. Others who are in the same situation will profit from such tips as well. :tu:
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Don't let those modern slaveholders ruin your life!

KVRAF
2731 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 am

Yeah, most people have good enough machines these days, so importance of good tweaked system and consumption of different aspects became irrelevant, you can even find in some of the current threads people who don't have a need to set power plan to high performance, let alone under way other tweaks, to be able to make music without problems.

When you have low spec system as yours, every bit counts, there you can really appreciate and spot tools which are truly greatly optimized, there you can see how much necessary "unnecessary OS optimization tweaks" become, how much difference good audio drivers truly make and etc.

My advice for anyone on tight budget, don't buy laptop, even 70 bucks desktop PC with i5 2500 is better option that most 50-200 bucks laptops for high performance audio, if you are using 64 bit system, have at least 8GB of RAM, spend time tweaking and optimizing it for real time audio, buy audio interface that have good and stable drivers, pick tools that are coded efficiently and doesn't tax much of your resources if possible, everything counts when you want to squeeze last bit of your system.

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”