DP 11 is out

[Pillimees]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

What kind of stupid question is that? Because earning money is hard, you have bills to pay, sometimes a family to support, etc.

Not anyone is a millionaire who can spend money without worrying with tomorrow. Even millionaires, or people who have more money than what they can spend, usually are wise in spending, and don't waste money purchasing things that are priced above what they should. It's called "voting with your wallet".

Besides, I was making comparisons with products in the same level. I call this being wise and conscious. Performer was my first sequencer, I still feel attached to it, and when I kind of abandoned macOS I missed it very much. I was glad when they finally made the move to Windows, but I still feel it is a half done job.

I'm not a millionaire either, and I have a family and bills also. But we are not talking about millions of dollars here either. Yes, the DP11 isn't perfect, but its behavior is fast, which makes working with an arpeggiator enjoyable. And like I said before, the fun factor is important to me. I am not saying that everyone has to think the same way, and that is why there are cheaper alternatives

[pdxindy]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

People talk about money all the time because they are obsessed with it and worship it. The (not quite) Almighty Dollar is the dominant religion today.

[dayjob]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

People talk about money all the time because they are obsessed with it and worship it. The (not quite) Almighty Dollar is the dominant religion today.

not to get too far off topic but i'd say the religion of today is the worship of the self and the self image. money too probably dovetails into that whole sh!t show.

anyway.. as for DP11 or any DAW or new whatever.. people should use whatever tools inspire them or help them get from A to B. that's all that matters.

we can bicker and moan about them all of course but it's all time wasting in the end. that being said.. i'd have liked a 10.5 before 11. Motu doesn't seem to do that though. they do some bug fixes then work on a new version.

[jonljacobi]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

People talk about money all the time because they are obsessed with it and worship it. The (not quite) Almighty Dollar is the dominant religion today.

Some of the talk is from people who don't have all that much money. It's easy not to be obsessed if you have enough. Been in both camps. I try not to forget what it feels like. Now if you're bitching and you do have the money, then there's an issue.

[jonljacobi]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

It depends, for some people it's a hobby and paying 499$, which is the price of a midrange desktop computer, a set of nice monitor speakers or a new hardware synth, is a bit hard to digest psychologically. You can't underestimate the financial aspect.

Yes, I understand that many people make music as a hobby, but there are enough cheap or even free DAWs here. Digital Perfomer is not cheap or intended for hobby musicians, it should have been clear to everyone a long time ago.

Well, then that's the problem here, if MOTU wants to cater only for professionals that's fine, but they are losing a huge crowd of hobbyists/enthusiasts and that's a shame. They are a private company so they can do as they please, i just think it's a hugh missed opportunity.

Cubase and many other DAWs manage to both cater to professionals while also offering "lighter" versions for hobbyists, I can't see why MOTU can't do that too.

There is a lite version available if you own one of their interfaces. Not sure why they wouldn't sell it.

[machinesworking]

Yes, but each version of Cubase adds something to the table too. Cubase released SIX versions - you pay six versions. DP only released three - you pay THE SAME for just three (counting with this one which, frankly, seems too "spartan" to me).

Yeah, no. This isn't a spartan upgrade, you might not want or use all the new features, but personally Chunk folders alone would get me thinking about it. You can't have it both ways here, you can't say DP is expensive upgrade wise then argue that Cubase isn't because it gives so much in it's upgrades. I read the threads on Cubase updates.

This isn't telling much in favor of DP either. Especially when there are so many problems regarding plug-in support that remain unsolved (look at my report regarding Kontakt, for example). And that stupid scanning method that scans the plug-ins twice. I simply don't get WTF the program is doing each time it is launched.

ASIO support is also far from being perfect. Sometimes, DP doesn't hold drivers that work perfectly with other programs (I am experiencing that now in my laptop), and I was forced to change to Windows Audio).

One of the advantages of DP11 was supposed to be better audio driver recognition etc. so that's weird. In terms of scanning, DP isn't the best or worst offender here.

DP is too tied to macOS. MOTU has to make their minds - either they support Windows properly as they should, or they simply tell users they don't care anymore. The way it is now is simply not fair.

This was the constant gripe about Cubase for years. They had serious issues with low latency buffer settings just eating into track counts, only on Mac OS. Sometime after they finally solved this Windows users were upset because there were GUI issues that weren't there on the Mac OS side.

I do talk to about a half dozen people who use Windows and DP who are happy. I've also read reports that it's a mess. I'm gonna hazard a guess it's mainly plug in issues, MOTU and or the plug in developers need to take more time on this because it's just not that great having some people with no problems and others with problems.

[machinesworking]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

People talk about money all the time because they are obsessed with it and worship it. The (not quite) Almighty Dollar is the dominant religion today.

Some of the talk is from people who don't have all that much money. It's easy not to be obsessed if you have enough. Been in both camps. I try not to forget what it feels like. Now if you're bitching and you do have the money, then there's an issue.

It's not really a relevant issue here. Comparing the cycle of upgrades, you're not paying any more for DP than other DAWs, barring Reaper and Logic which kind of break the mould. Cubase, Pro Tools, Bitwig, Studio One etc. are all around the same price per year.

Arguing about what's in the upgrade is pointless, too specific to your needs alone. Even arguing feature sets in DAWs without taking into account what you personally want. I want a DAW that does MPE, articulation maps, SysEx, has a developed quantize feature, audio editing, video scoring features, Clips, and does multiple songs within projects like DP does. I completely get it if someone else doesn't have the same needs.

[THE INTRANCER]

For me this isn't a deal killer, because I basically hate most DAWs browsers with a passion, and just use finder or explorer for that.

ADSR's sample browser is what i prefer now over any DAW's sample browser, if you haven't tried it yet, i highly recommend.

I didn't say that..

[machinesworking]

On a different note the inclusion of support for Novation, NI and Akai controllers changes my setup drastically. I've used a Push 2 for years, along with an Akai MPK88, and Beatstep Pro. I'm now looking at selling all three and getting the Launchpad MK3 and a Komplete Control S88 MKII, which would cover all three devices and support all DAWs I have loaded here.

Ordered the Launchpad Pro Mk3 already, should be here by tomorrow. I like Push2 but the MK3 is compatible literally with every DAW on my system, whereas Push 2 is relegated to Live, Bitwig and Reaper, in that order of usefulness.

In the air about the S88 MKII, if it can be used as a Mackie control surface without any software on the computer then I can be assured NI can't brick it by abandoning it to some version of Controller Editor that will no longer run on some future OS.

[Trensharo]

I have to admit I'm really digging the new look of DP11. They did an excellent job with the fonts now for Windows PCs. The interface reminds me of Studio One. I'm checking some tutorials on YouTube to figure out how to use this DAW. It is very complex at least to me when compared to Studio One, Live, Reason, Cubase, and Bitwig. Then again everything can appear intimidating when you lack experience with it.

Yea, it feels a bit over-engineered to use, compared to something like Cubase or Studio One. Kind of like the Akai MPC Software vs. NI Maschine 2 Software.

Hard pass for me. I did try the demo, and the feature set is there; but I find Cubase and Studio One more usable and less esoteric. I have better things to do than "learn" DAW specific, non-portable, software idiosynchracies. Time is money.

The cross grade is also surprisingly expensive, considering it's a cross grade and the people buying it already own DAW software that they could likely continue using without an additional $400 investment (+ future upgrade costs).

I like the idea of being more open in terms of native support for different types of controllers, though. Other vendors can learn from that.

[Trensharo]

Why does everyone talk about money all the time? If I have something that suits me and helps me do my job better, I don't care if it cost me a little more or a little less. My enjoyment of my work and tools is far more important to me than the money I spent on them.

People talk about money all the time because they are obsessed with it and worship it. The (not quite) Almighty Dollar is the dominant religion today.

It's not 1200 B.C.

Life is not free, anymore. Increasing amounts of money are needed to secure and improve a decent quality of life.

Until that changes, people will care - A LOT - about it.

Nothing remarkable about that, and virtue signaling around it only makes one look ignorant.

Spending money on tools that you otherwise can keep in your pocket is stupid, if the cheaper options gets the same job done as the more expensive option; and probably with similar levels of productivity. That sounds a lot better than it actually works out to be in real life.

The people who spend unnecessary dollars are those with more disposable income, which means their situation is different and they're just choosing not to empathize with others - or don't have the capacity or have not had an experience that allows them to do so (i.e. born wealthy).

No one faults a business for cutting unnecessary operating expensive, yet you are basically shaming users for doing the same with their own personal funds.

[pdxindy]

No one faults a business for cutting unnecessary operating expensive, yet you are basically shaming users for doing the same with their own personal funds.

I didn't say a word about what someone should or should not do with their money. That is none of my business. You are making stuff up out of your own head.

[Trensharo]

No one faults a business for cutting unnecessary operating expensive, yet you are basically shaming users for doing the same with their own personal funds.

I didn't say a word about what someone should or should not do with their money. That is none of my business. You are making stuff up out of your own head.

What you meant is clearly inferred from your post. I don't need to make anything up. Go read what you wrote and actually think about it.

In fact, maybe thinking before pressing Submit would be most optimal in your case.

People don't worship anything. They value it, and rightfully so.

[Trensharo]

This was the constant gripe about Cubase for years. They had serious issues with low latency buffer settings just eating into track counts, only on Mac OS. Sometime after they finally solved this Windows users were upset because there were GUI issues that weren't there on the Mac OS side.

Unfortunately, Cubase fixed that... years ago. Things that were acceptable a decade ago cease to be acceptable today. There are so many choices - many at cheaper price points - that people are less willing to accept mediocrity in areas of the software that are important to them. Many people ditched Cubase over bad HiDPI monitor support, for example, because that was important to them.

That is a benefit of Steinberg (and others) porting to macOS (or Windows) long before Digital Performer. It means they had years of head start in getting those builds up to shape. So, by the time the people of today were looking for a DAW on Windows, these issues with DP simply didn't exist in the alternatives - putting it at a competitive disadvantage.

Cubase brought the Mac build up to sync with the Windows build in the year 2000. DP didn't port to Windows until DP8 in 2012. They don't exactly have PreSonus or even BandLab-level development momentum, either. So, it's not like many of these types of issues get fixed mid-release (resulting in what many perceive as paid bug fixes - MAGIX also has this issue).

Personally, I think it looks great from a functional standpoint. I just don't like the UX or the workflow - a bit too esoteric for my tastes. The benefits to me aren't worth the learning curve, and the price is quite unconvincing. If it were cheaper on cross grade, I'd likely snag it up and then learn it bit by bit as I had free time to burn, and probably upgrade in the future when I was up to speed and decided to make the switch. $400+ is a hard ask, though, unless it offered some great utility that would be useful alongside my current DAW (like the Reason Rack Plug-in, or something similar).

[machinesworking]

Yea, it feels a bit over-engineered to use, compared to something like Cubase or Studio One. Kind of like the Akai MPC Software vs. NI Maschine 2 Software.

Not a terrible comparison, I find certain things in the Maschine software to be just clunky compared to the MPC. Which fits into my thoughts on this. One thing that's just stupid about Maschine is it's a percussion sequencer that can't do multiple time signatures in it's Song timline. I really wish it wasn't that idiotic, but it is, you can sit there and do the math to get 9/8 alongside 4/4 or you can just export the parts one by one into a real DAW. The MPC software version does this no issues, the hardware leaves a lot to be desired in terms of how oyu go about adding new time signatures, so I sold it. Maschine Studio doesn't go for enough money to justify selling it.

Hard pass for me. I did try the demo, and the feature set is there; but I find Cubase and Studio One more usable and less esoteric. I have better things to do than "learn" DAW specific, non-portable, software idiosynchracies. Time is money.

Cubase IMO is probably the lease esoteric DAW I've tried, it's personally not that inspiring, but it's relatively easy to figure out. I went with Logic back in the day when choosing between the two and for some of the reasons you don't like DP's UX, the itnerface seemed intimidating (v4.7) but I could see that in the future it would be fast for me, at the time the cycle bar in Logic was just better to me. DP is set up for large projects, and it's great when you have dozens or hundreds of tracks, it's also well set up for archiving states of songs within the same project.

The cross grade is also surprisingly expensive, considering it's a cross grade and the people buying it already own DAW software that they could likely continue using without an additional $400 investment (+ future upgrade costs).

I had to look up the cross grade from Cubase, because for years Cubase's crossgrade was also $399. I can't disagree with that, they should have lowered it when Cubase was lowered. To be fair though DP comes with film score features that you only get in Nuendo. What I did with Bitwig which doesn't offer a cross grade, is wait until someone was selling it in the buy and sell market here. DP comes up sometimes here, I would bet someone buys it and it doesn't sit with them. Last price I saw was $200.

I like the idea of being more open in terms of native support for different types of controllers, though. Other vendors can learn from that.

Bitwig, Live and DP all do a good job there. Logic lags with only Novation support, but their own Logic Control is fantastic if you have an iPad.