FR : KP3 Style Loop Slice Play Mode

Official support for: livelab.dk
KVRian
1216 posts since 10 Aug, 2005

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:45 am

The Korg KaosPad 3 has a really nifty function with it's sliced loop playback mode. It cycles through all the slices in much the same way that Liveslice does but takes a twist when you disable some of the slices. It instantly skips them, instead of a gap like how just deleting or reducing the volume of a slice in LS would, it goes immediately to the next adjacent slice.

See this video at 30seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owkeBOcC-AQ

Isn't that groovy? Is there any way that LS could be set-up to do this? Also, if you had hardware buttons at your disposal, it would be great if you could toggle slices with the buttons. Some sort of CC mapping to slice functionality.

The closest implementation that I can think of that mirrors the existing LS spec would be an Arpeggiation Mode whereupon you hold down notes on a keyboard (to trigger slices) but instead of one-shots per note like it is currently, it would start an arpeggiated sequence that is user-definable.
So if you had a loop split up into 16 slices and held 4 of the corresponding notes/slices down, it would cycle through them in the same way that the KP3 does.

A few of options for this "arpeggiated slice mode" would be:
  • 1."arpeggiation style (up-down, random, back-forth etc)"
    2."speed/rate", and more interestingly
    3. "range" where the setting defines how many slices are included underneath each note/button.
    i.e. range of 1 would just be a single slice under the note and a range of 9 would be 4 to the left of the note/button and 4 to the right. This would allow you to cover a very finely sliced loop.
And there you have it. :)

KVRAF
12245 posts since 18 Aug, 2003

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:18 pm

You could just create truncated versions of any given loop in different slots and just jump between them.

You'd lose some of the spontaneity possible with the KP3, except that with only 8 slice slots in the KP3, you don't exactly have limitless possibilities for spontaneity anyway.

ohm
KVRAF
1513 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:52 pm

It's definitely groovy, and I like the whole idea of completely free looping / repetition of slices, I could definitely imagine these ideas to end up as a new Livelab.dk plugin at some point. Especially because it would justify me buying a cp3 :-)
If you want the featureset now, you can simply use a midi arpeggiator with any sampler (or liveslice). I just tried with the new arpeggiator in energy xt 2 and it works great. It's really fun to play around with btw. thanks for the heads up.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life

KVRian

Topic Starter

1216 posts since 10 Aug, 2005

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:06 pm

Yes that much is true. You could definetly achieve a similar sound overall by laboriously pulling slices into their own arrangements but bare in mind. This is Liveslice not Sequencerslice. Most of the FR's I make are aimed at improving and adding to the Live Performance dimension of this instrument. That is what is so special about Jakobs wonderful plugins. The spontaneous playability and inspiration you get from hearing changes happen straight away from underneath your fingertips.

So - hear me roar or be square!

;)


Ah I just saw your post ohm-ster..

Well yes you could again emulate this fx by 'labouriously' slicing up a loop by hand and exporting as individual waves and then importing them into the sampler of your choice and setting up an arp. I'll grant you that but by the time you've done that and are about to hit 'play' it's suddenly time for dinner or what-not. ;)

I don't understand why you don't want to put such a feature straight into Liveslice. It would suit the existing toolset very well and expand on it's functionality. It doesn't need to be a whole new plug, unless you're talking about a KaosPad VST which is a whole new story!
I see an arpeggiated slice looping mode a valuable feature for Liveslice or are you worried it is getting too bloated?

Hmm..

KVRAF
12245 posts since 18 Aug, 2003

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:31 pm

I think you overestimate how long it takes to arrange things in Liveslice. But a simple way to do it would be to add a "skip slice" switch/parameter per slice, much like the way reverse is handled, that effectively tricks a track's beat to shorten/lengthen.

ohm
KVRAF
1513 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:52 pm

spuddle wrote: I see an arpeggiated slice looping mode a valuable feature for Liveslice or are you worried it is getting too bloated?
Exactly. You'd need quite a bit of controls to configure this arp mode, it it very likely to confuse most users - even if it's put on the settings page, and in that case it would be difficult to access.

Do you own energy xt 2? If so, please try the built in arp with LiveSlice and tell me if this is not exactly the feature you've been looking for. As far as I can tell the only difference is that the arp configuration is in a separate window from the plugin. If you don't have energy xt, there's probably some other midi arpeggiator out there. If not, then I'll consider doing one myself, should be pretty simple.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life

KVRian

Topic Starter

1216 posts since 10 Aug, 2005

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:31 pm

ohm wrote:
spuddle wrote: I see an arpeggiated slice looping mode a valuable feature for Liveslice or are you worried it is getting too bloated?
Exactly. You'd need quite a bit of controls to configure this arp mode, it it very likely to confuse most users - even if it's put on the settings page, and in that case it would be difficult to access.

Do you own energy xt 2? If so, please try the built in arp with LiveSlice and tell me if this is not exactly the feature you've been looking for. As far as I can tell the only difference is that the arp configuration is in a separate window from the plugin. If you don't have energy xt, there's probably some other midi arpeggiator out there. If not, then I'll consider doing one myself, should be pretty simple.
Sweet just been playing with eXT2. Using it's arpeggiator with LS a little unwieldy timing wise because of the relatively short gating the eXT2 arpeggiator has. It often cannot play the entire slice, or it introduces delays before playing the next slice. Ideally I'm looking for the default use within LS to play an entire slice before moving immediately on to the next one, naturally a gating parameter would allow you to reduce the length of the slice to play before moving on (preferably by a percentage). I have to agree it's close but I'm not sure if it's robust enough for live performance? Gonna fiddle some more!

Also Ohm, if you're worried about the bloatedness of Liveslice. How about having a new whole tab for LS called "Live Mode" or something similar, it could be a button that goes to the left of "settings" and it this switches to a whole new window that would be a blank or basic template in which you would fill in yourself from the available LS functions via drop down menus or the like. This way you can choose to have visible the features that you use in a live situation. Similar to the new Max/MSP 5 "Presentation Mode".

Anyhow, I guess I'm a bit of a dreamer really :)

Is there anyway to edit on a per slice level via CC messages? i.e. Instead of Volume sweeping the levels of the entire loop. You could hold down that slice note and then tweak the knob with the same CC message and it only adjusts for that slice? Also how about a slice selection panner? A CC message could let you cycle through the slices, highlighting one for edit/manipulation?

KVRAF
1714 posts since 14 Mar, 2003 from Israel

Post Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:10 am

Interesting thread, regardless if ohm implements this or not.

@spuddle: maybe try the Sugar Bytes ERA in arp mode. It's a pattern based arp, and packs a lot of power. This is still a workaround, but one that might be closer to what you are looking for.
CubaseStudio4 µTonic/Rapture Nitro/GS-201/Ohmicide/TBK 1&3

KVRian

Topic Starter

1216 posts since 10 Aug, 2005

Post Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:01 am

spacefox wrote:Interesting thread, regardless if ohm implements this or not.

@spuddle: maybe try the Sugar Bytes ERA in arp mode. It's a pattern based arp, and packs a lot of power. This is still a workaround, but one that might be closer to what you are looking for.
Interesting, so you think I can get more control if I choose a better arp plug? ERA isn't free is it? Didn't Sugar Bytes disappear too?

Hmm, I still think that the feature I need needs to be specifically tied to the slices as opposed to the note data you're feeding in. I guess I'll have to live with it if isn't considered a worthy feature to add straight to LS.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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