Help me decide between Ableton & Bitwig please...

[ThomasHelzle]

“Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray.”
Jalaluddin Rumi

[Distorted Horizon]

First I liked Live more but since BWS went version 2.. It's no competition anymore. BWS has way better workflow (for me) than Live.

[rod_zero]

As for value Bitwig is now more expensive, if you want to be be on last version.

Live is having 4 years update cycles, 8-9-10 was 4 years so I would expect them to continue this trend, and live has had some cool .X updates along the way,

But ultimately any daw is very capable, it is just a question of developing skills on them and choose the one you are faster with.

And FL studio is as capable at the others, it just looks different.

[DrGonzo]

I'm also starting to lean over to Bitwig. My muscle memory is still in favour of Live 10 - but I like the workflow much better in Bitwig.

/C

[Winstontaneous]

Really good non-fanboi responses here! I used to own Bitwig 1.x and I've been with Live since 9.5. Have also used Tracktion, Audiomulch, Reason, REAPER, and Logic. Try both with your setup and see which works.

Out of all the DAWs Live is the one that doesn't make me want to smash my computer, and paired with Push 2 it just feels like an instrument. There are notable omissions (comping & vocal pitch correction, MPE, multiple documents open at once) that I hope they address soon. But for me the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and there are lots of little things like: fully-scalable interface, the best contextual documentation of any computer program I've ever used, the ability to use keyboard commands/arrows to navigate dialogue boxes (Save, cancel, etc.) unlike pretty much anything else on OSX, how utterly simple it is to capture any combo of tracks as audio in realtime (not rendering or bouncing in place).

Bitwig is great (I just downloaded the 2.5 demo the other day) but I really don't like the popup browser, lack of native plug & play MIDI controller support, and upgrade policy. When I owned it, Bitwig had terrible performance on my MacBook Pro, uninspiring native FX, supposedly sandboxed plugins were crashing the app, and the promised fully modular environment was but a twinkle in the devs' eyes.

[creamsodase]

I've found myselft in the last 90 days in a mission to settle on a single DAW for my workflow and got into trying Ableton, Bitwig, Waveform and Reason.

One reason that made me stick to live in the end as the fact that i didn't get a single compatibility problem or error during my testing period, while with every other software i got some driver issues, weird crackling that required a reboot, and minor vst troubles. Live went smooth all the way.

I know that this is a completely personal experience, and that is why i recommend trying all of them and stressing the load of those bastards and making sure your hardware synth get work fine with them, in the end is all about picking the one tha won't limit you, the rest is a bonus.

[DavidCarlyon]

So many peopl echoing my thoughts here. And yes, i bet the Bitwig meetups in berlin are awesome!! Would love to attend one of those. Bitwig has a very interesting crowd, and is generally more exciting. if i were always 'in the box' and didn't have push, i would be in bitwig for sure. Of course bitwig 4 push is absolutely amazing, but there is no denying the power of push and live, it is, as others have said, just like an instrument. I also have the slate raven, which has a template for live.
So though i switched from live to bitwig - im gonna keep my bitwig licence, still work in it, but a lot of my projects will now be in live.
Also, for hardware (non modular) synths, live is actually a lot better now, I keep ranting about this, but anything that transmits NRPN can act literally like a plugin in live. Which for me is huge.
I also love the weird max for live devices you can get. As much as i am looking forward to BW3 modular (and i really, really am)
Max for live is actually freaking incredible. Any time you want to do something, chances are there is a max device that will do it. I bought some really cool sequencers from J74 the other day - 12 bucks for the most dope sequencer i have ever used.

They both, ultimately are the most exciting platforms, both are awesome. For electronic music, this is the way to do it IMO.

I went back to studio One to mix a track today - first thing i noticed, its about 5 times more efficient than live and BW. Really really good for mixing and audio, but when it actually comes to writing electronic music, live really wrote the book on how to do that.
I think the drum machine/device approach is king (this is actually better in live) Im actually going to sell my maschine because of this. I love it dearly, but it seems kind of redundant when i use drum racks all the time.

Might wanna think about HOW you are going to make music. i like to run all my synths at once, right up til bounce down. Live has freeze which helps if my system runs out of steam.

It would be really nice if more brilliant minds came over to bitwig and started scripting for it. Live definitely did benefit from its early adoptors.
And yet, in every single magazine article i see about 'best DAW of 2018' bitwig isn't even in the top ten! I mean, thats insane. Its probably the best overall!!!! Maybe V3 will tip some live users over the edge. Maybe some FL users too.

[xbitz]

at the start/idea generating phase of a new project simply drop FL Studio as VST into Bitwig and use its PR with MIDI-Out devices (I've put FL to the primary BWS to my secondary monitor) at this phase worth to use Bitwig only as a sound module
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANaNg9H6jg
later quite simply recording the different FL patterns into the launcher clips of Bitwig and finishing the project in its arranger, IMO the PR of BWS only can be used as a corrector tool at this moment (Ableton Live one is bit better but still PITA compared to one in FL)

"MacBook Pro" yepp, if u have mac should choose AL instead of BWS the performance of BWS is awful in it

[nachenko]

I moved from FLStudio to Live a few months ago. Feature-wise, FLStudio is far, far superior to Live, it's miles away. Stuff like using audio signal as MIDI controller for any parameter of any plugin, a filter effect with all the modulation capabilities of a synth, the vocoder, Maximus multiband compressor, integrated audio editor, best piano roll ever since version 7 or so...

But I don't miss it a little bit. Well, the piano roll, maybe. And Sytrus. Oh, boy, I miss Sytrus.

The problem with FLStudio is that keeping productive is close to impossible! I was spending most of my time closing and opening windows. Too messy!

I moved to Ableton Live because it cuts to the chase. It's much, much more pragmatic. Now that I can compare, FLStudio is about going wild, and Live is about getting shit done. Saving some tiny sketchy idea for later: you drag the clip to the user folder, done. You want to reuse a pattern, but with small changes. Copy, paste, double click, edit, done. No need to assign instruments to mixer tracks by hand, you only do that if you have a not-so-usual scenario. It auto assigns different colors to different channels. Clipping notices in mixer channels. Automation for a track is always inside that track. Basic MIDI stuff, including Mod wheel, just works. Assigning Push knobs to a 3rd party plugin is easy as pie. I could go on with this for hours.

Million little details in Live are not fancy, but they actually help you being productive.

I think the drum machine/device approach is king (this is actually better in live) I'm actually going to sell my maschine because of this. I love it dearly, but it seems kind of redundant when i use drum racks all the time.

Man, I did that too! I loved it so much, an old Maschine MK1 a friend sold me for cheap. I was so focused when using it. The workflow was addictive! And it looks soooo good. But it didn't make sense to use it on Live. It took me months to make up my mind finally, to sell it and get a Push controller. Best purchase ever.

For me, Push + Live = It just works.

[Hooj]

fwiw, I was turned on to Ableton about 8yrs ago by a colleague and although I really wasn't looking for a DAW @ the time, I ended up buying it because it is the "best" software for sparking my creativity and getting idea's started. I rarely finish tracks in Ableton but I always begin them w/Ableton.

[elxsound]

To the OP... Are you sure you don't want to work with Cubase?

I've worked with many DAWs over the years, except Cubase. Seeing its mixing workflow, makes me wish I went that route to pair with my Live workflow, but for now I'm sticking with Logic and Live.

I have nothing to add to a Live vs BW discussion, but after reading your opening post, I'd thought I would bring it up because I too have seen many of the composers I like use it, and then combined with seeing Cubase in action for mixing and mastering... I've been in awe since. I just don't want to waste my time learning yet another DAW, but if I were someone like you... I wish someone had pushed me towards Cubase long ago.

[Reefius]

And Sytrus. Oh, boy, I miss Sytrus.

If you're on Windows you can install the VST version of Sytrus:
https://www.image-line.com/plugins/Synths/Sytrus/

[nachenko]

And Sytrus. Oh, boy, I miss Sytrus.

If you're on Windows you can install the VST version of Sytrus:
https://www.image-line.com/plugins/Synths/Sytrus/

Yes, that's the thing, I had to move to Mac for work. There's a 32 bits Alpha for Mac somewhere, that's it. Nothing I can use properly.

[DavidCarlyon]

I moved from FLStudio to Live a few months ago. Feature-wise, FLStudio is far, far superior to Live, it's miles away. Stuff like using audio signal as MIDI controller for any parameter of any plugin, a filter effect with all the modulation capabilities of a synth, the vocoder, Maximus multiband compressor, integrated audio editor, best piano roll ever since version 7 or so...

But I don't miss it a little bit. Well, the piano roll, maybe. And Sytrus. Oh, boy, I miss Sytrus.


I pretty much concur with this post, fl does indeed have a better piano roll and some really good features. I would contest though, that it is more advanced than live. If you throw m4l into the equation, live can do pretty much all that stuff and a hell of a lot more. It’s not even close if you add max in. You can literally build your own devices to do almost anything you like. But yes, out of the box, you are right.

Also. Bitwig has all of those features built in (audio as mod/sidechain source....and has a ton more modulation devices)

But alas, your point about work flow is spot on. In live ideas come together. And in the end, that’s what this is all about.

It sounds like your experience with maschine was very similar to mine. I got a studio when they came out and fell deep in love. But the software wasn’t ( and stilllll isn’t!) advanced In a lot of ways so I got push.
Now I have an mk3 and push. But I seldom use maschine in ableton or bitwig (my two main daws) so it seems a little silly keeping it.
I think you are right - maschine is best when used alone. It keeps you so focused. You have your transport right there, you can dart around the session so quick. But the bottom line is, I use synths for almost everything (including drums) and I feel like maschine is leaning more and more towards advanced sample workflows (it is a Groovebox after all)
I will be so sad to see it go. When I sold the studio I missed it loads. But like you say, live and push is a winning combo.

Have you been tempted at all by the akai fl studio controller? Have to say it looks pretty cool. Basic as hell, but I’m a sucker for step sequencers.

Then again, my problem with push for bitwig is the step sequencer - moss has made it so you can do most of the same things, but being able to do step automation in the step sequencer is a god send.

The problem with FLStudio is that keeping productive is close to impossible! I was spending most of my time closing and opening windows. Too messy!

I moved to Ableton Live because it cuts to the chase. It's much, much more pragmatic. Now that I can compare, FLStudio is about going wild, and Live is about getting shit done. Saving some tiny sketchy idea for later: you drag the clip to the user folder, done. You want to reuse a pattern, but with small changes. Copy, paste, double click, edit, done. No need to assign instruments to mixer tracks by hand, you only do that if you have a not-so-usual scenario. It auto assigns different colors to different channels. Clipping notices in mixer channels. Automation for a track is always inside that track. Basic MIDI stuff, including Mod wheel, just works. Assigning Push knobs to a 3rd party plugin is easy as pie. I could go on with this for hours.

Million little details in Live are not fancy, but they actually help you being productive.

I think the drum machine/device approach is king (this is actually better in live) I'm actually going to sell my maschine because of this. I love it dearly, but it seems kind of redundant when i use drum racks all the time.

Man, I did that too! I loved it so much, an old Maschine MK1 a friend sold me for cheap. I was so focused when using it. The workflow was addictive! And it looks soooo good. But it didn't make sense to use it on Live. It took me months to make up my mind finally, to sell it and get a Push controller. Best purchase ever.

For me, Push + Live = It just works.

[Sticklebrick]

Currently, I think Bitwig and Live are pretty even, each has some benefits and drawbacks over the other, that's why it seems to split opinion pretty much down the middle at the moment. I guess it comes down to personal preference right now. I was in the same boat a while ago (pre Max4Live) and chose Bitwig. Yes there's no denying that the Bitwig team have been a bit tardy implementing some really basic features, which I can tolerate for now and suspect that they have their reasons. But consider this: Ableton is essentially fully matured, I don't think it's going to change much going forward. I suspect, it's difficult to make major overhauls in well developed software, which kinda explains the "add-on" of M4L. But Bitwig is still relatively young and has come a long way considering it's young age. So I put my money on Bitwig surpassing Live in the next few years. Plus I like the simplicity of the GUI in Bitwig (Live's GUI has too much going on), the native modulation system in Bitwig and the workflow just seems so much more straight forward and flexible.