MUTON FREE Beta 1 for OSX & Windows

Official support for: mutools.com
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DHR53
KVRAF
2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:14 pm

I did get some sound to come out finally! Yea! :) Hmmm lot of interface glitches...

1. How do I rewind the playback cursor to beginning??
2. Won't show the instrument interface in edit.
3. Couldn't record any midi notes with the instrument either... Must be doing something wrong...
4. Any cmnd. keys??
5. Crashed scanning the VST folder 3 times until I removed Roomverb...

So, Is AU going to be supported or just VST?? ...and what's the goal for this program, anyway? In it's basic form it would still let users do simple sequencing and mixing with VIs and FX plugs. But beyond that, is it going to be an inexpensive option for users who can't or don't want to spend the big bucks? Or is it goingto be expanded into a full blown DAW??

:?: (Oh yea) OSX 10.4.5 Dual G5 Logic 7.1.1

Hengy
KVRist
199 posts since 19 Sep, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:30 pm

just fired up beta 1,
firstly - like the new look, much nicer


personally not keen on the vector play/record button default styles, and the record button should be solid red when active in the same way that the play button is shaded green to indicate recording is active

i'm still getting silent crashes when scanning my, admittedly not small, vst directory. as it seems to happen after a number of vst's have been scanned, rather than with specific vsts i'm guessing it might be some kind of overun (ie if i move vst's it has failed with to their own directory and just scan that they work fine)

resizing the main window by dragging gives some pretty ugly redraws while the window is resizing - not critical but looks messy

i also get a 'not responding' freeze/crash if i click on the zoom button (filled in circle) while editing a sequencer part

oh regarding the css font issue, nice discussion at
www.alistapart.com/articles/goingtoprint/

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:31 pm

First, 1.0 must be stable and finetuned.

Then we'll see...

Rewire - TimeStretching - PDC - Freeze - Integrated instruments and effects - Preset musical content - ...

Many possibilities.

So it will be a tough choice.

But first: let's get 1.0 rock solid!

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:45 pm

DHR53 wrote:1. How do I rewind the playback cursor to beginning??
By clicking in the time line.
2. Won't show the instrument interface in edit.
Which VSTI was that.

Or is that with any VSTI?
3. Couldn't record any midi notes with the instrument either... Must be doing something wrong...
->Did you setup your MIDI ports via Menu Panel=>Edit=>MIDI Setup?

->Is the "Record Events" button enabled? (at the right of the record button?
4. Any cmnd. keys??
Not really.

Besides command+Z = UNDO and shift+command+Z = REDO

Key Shortcuts will be added later.
5. Crashed scanning the VST folder 3 times until I removed Roomverb...
OK, will check that.
So, Is AU going to be supported or just VST??
To be decided.
...and what's the goal for this program, anyway? In it's basic form it would still let users do simple sequencing and mixing with VIs and FX plugs. But beyond that, is it going to be an inexpensive option for users who can't or don't want to spend the big bucks? Or is it goingto be expanded into a full blown DAW??
Currently the goal is to make a simple, but very easy and accessible allround music composer.

Bonteburg
Hun #3
4260 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 pm

Hi Jo!
OSX version
First impressions, first bugs ;)

--------------------------------
Things that seemed like bugs or at least struck me as odd:
--------------------------------

-A click on "Preferences" doesn't do anything.

-"Add vst plug in to database":
Muton doesn't seem to want to add any other plug ins than SR 202 (even though it does seem to load CM101 but I'm not able to actually choose it as a generator).

-Same goes for effects, I wasn't able to add any, nor do any of my vst effects show up in the slots when.

-No cpu meter.

-Graphics/redraw seems a little glitchy. ie: the tiniest bit of a stutter, but nothing to lose sleep over :)

-Moving the GUI of a synth makes it grey, reloading the GUI fixes that. This one is probably related to the graphics issue.

-"Mixdown to Audiofile" doesn't seem to work at all (or I'm being thick , which might be the case ,what with a new program to learn)
Here's what I did:
I recorded a sequence with SR202 and my mk 249c(which worked perfectly)
I had a listen to the sequence
I selected the sequence so it was dark, same with the zimeline, i selected both so they went a darker shade.
I hit mixdown to audiofile
the .aiffs are there but they contain so much silence.

-I'm missing some kind of specification in the mixdown dialogue (like "mixdown from bar xxxx to bar xxxx" etc)

-I didn't spot anything in the way of rewind and fast forward thingies, only a rather cumbersome box to type in the desred position. If it's gonna be a box with numbers, best make it "scrollable". (ie the numbers change as you move the mouse)

-having a closer look at the optiions in the automation lane crashed Muton, so did examining the effect options in a channel strip (not sure what exactly the bug was).

--------------------------------
Random Musings:
--------------------------------

I'd like to see automation drawing instead of stalks tbh.

A dockable mixdesk window would be nice!

A magnifying glass or something to that effect would come in handy (i wonder though ... did Muzys ever have one?)


--------------------------------
Things that I liked: D
--------------------------------

-Midi connection via my delta 2496/evolution keyboard worked like a charm! I have only entered notes so far, I get no noticable latency, tight! :tu:

-I loaded a longish audiofile after creating a "new audio part", works flawlessly so far as I can tell.


My specs:
oldish G4, OSX 10.3 (Panther), delta audiophile 2496, mk249 midi keyboard.

My Muton folder is sitting on the desktop, not in the "applications" folder - maybe this accounts for some of the goings-on?
I don't know how fussy OSX is regarding directories...



Bottom line: Exciting times lie ahead, I'll try and do my best as a tester!

Marco :)

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:56 pm

Hengy wrote:just fired up beta 1,
firstly - like the new look, much nicer
:)
personally not keen on the vector play/record button default styles, and the record button should be solid red when active in the same way that the play button is shaded green to indicate recording is active
But the record button IS red when recording no?

I mean: a filled red circle in an orange rectangle button, right?
i'm still getting silent crashes when scanning my, admittedly not small, vst directory. as it seems to happen after a number of vst's have been scanned, rather than with specific vsts i'm guessing it might be some kind of overun (ie if i move vst's it has failed with to their own directory and just scan that they work fine)
I can't think of an overrun situation...

Anyway, when MUTON would crash while scanning VST plugins, there should be a VstPluginScanLog.txt in your {Muton.exe}/Settings subfolder.

Now when you open it in a text editor, what's the last line saying?

That should tell on which VST plugin it crashed.
resizing the main window by dragging gives some pretty ugly redraws while the window is resizing - not critical but looks messy
That's right. To be improved!
i also get a 'not responding' freeze/crash if i click on the zoom button (filled in circle) while editing a sequencer part
Yep, got that here too. Thanks for reporting this!

User avatar
mellotronaut
KVRAF
9981 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:58 pm

Congratulations!
I use computermuzys for loopmaking and experimental stuff. So, I'm very interested in your new baby.
Rewire would be my first wish for 1.1. Beside of that I'm very curious for muton.
:hyper:
"It dreamed itself along"

User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
6846 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:16 pm

muzycian wrote:Ok, is this one better: http://www.mutools.com/temp/style.css
Not sure quite why but that's much worse - I didn't think "smaller" would have that much effect (but I do tend to stick with the percentages - they're more predictable). I tend to work with my "normal" font size being comfortable (between 10 and 12pt, depending on font, at 96dpi - which is around 11px on my display as it happens...). Headings (i.e. things demanding more attention) should be bigger. Making "normal" text smaller is really the wrong way round. But no, I don't find the website a problem.
muzycian wrote:
pljones wrote:Managed to get it to fail on adding a WAV file:

Code: Select all

MUTON FREE.exe caused an Access Violation at location 004056bc in module MUTON FREE.exe Reading from location 00000018...[/quote]

In what circumstances?

Is it a repeatable crash?[/quote]

That was adding a third audio track.  I've tried to reproduce it but failed.  I had also been messing with various plugins and so on, so there's probably something I've forgotten to try involved.

In the course of trying to reproduce it, I've been having a [i]lot[/i] of fun, however, playing with the Beta :), so it's not all bad! :lol:  The audio side is really easy to play with.

Does it support Acidized WAV files?  Can it read the tempo direct from the WAV?  More "not in 1.0" features, I guess ;).

Bonteburg
Hun #3
4260 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:25 pm

--------------------------------
New goings-on: ;)
--------------------------------
-if the "velocity stalks" of two notes coincide, you're automatically altering the velocity of both noes at the same time. (automation lane). You need to nudge the note you want to edit.
-The list editor says "no player" when it's SR202 that's playing. Trying to ook into it crashes Muton.
-Choosing "pitch bend" in the atuomation dialogue crashes Muton.

OSX 10.3 (Panther)

I'm getting this dialogue with loads of code when an app crashes, should I paste this in the thread?

Marco :)

User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
6846 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:28 pm

Mixdown doesn't appear to work here, either. Just got what looks like noise.

And one "You *MUST* do this" request ;) - I need a "Home" key to get back to the start of the composition quickly without needing to try to click accurately or type "0" into the position.

User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
6846 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:30 pm

<deleted post>
My mistake... Too late for me, clearly. I'll go away now ;)
--------
Well, I'll use this to say something useful instead...

I really like the way the audio streams. I wasn't sure what the manual meant when it said that. But the audio side feels really responsive: the sequencer starts and there you go - sound! :) And no glitches.

Is it playing everything from RAM? (Maybe the error I got was trying to load a file too big - I wasn't paying much attention, to be honest: too much fun ;))

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:48 pm

Bonteburg wrote:-A click on "Preferences" doesn't do anything.
Yeah, you're right. Will take the menu option away as long as there are no editable preferences.

[quote
-"Add vst plug in to database":
Muton doesn't seem to want to add any other plug ins than SR 202 (even though it does seem to load CM101 but I'm not able to actually choose it as a generator).[/quote]

CM101 loads & plays fine here.

Note that Muton only supports MachO Vst plugs, not CFM Vst plugs!
-No cpu meter.
Mmm, right, strange that it doesn't work on osx. Will trace that.
-Moving the GUI of a synth makes it grey, reloading the GUI fixes that. This one is probably related to the graphics issue.
OK, will look into that.
-"Mixdown to Audiofile" doesn't seem to work at all (or I'm being thick , which might be the case ,what with a new program to learn)
Here's what I did:
I recorded a sequence with SR202 and my mk 249c(which worked perfectly)
I had a listen to the sequence
I selected the sequence so it was dark, same with the zimeline, i selected both so they went a darker shade.
I hit mixdown to audiofile
the .aiffs are there but they contain so much silence.
And you did indicate the loop region in the timebar?

I'll look into that.
-I'm missing some kind of specification in the mixdown dialogue (like "mixdown from bar xxxx to bar xxxx" etc)
Well, i'm thinking about this improvement:

When nothing is selected, then mixdown everythin
When some parts are selected, only mixodwn those parts

Inboth case, the mixdown will include the full audio-tail, e.g. reverbs fading out after the last part.

-I didn't spot anything in the way of rewind and fast forward thingies, only a rather cumbersome box to type in the desred position. If it's gonna be a box with numbers, best make it "scrollable". (ie the numbers change as you move the mouse)
I wanted to keep the transport panel as simple as possible.

You can use the Time Bar to position at any point.

Agreed, going to the very beginning is not user-friendly now. There should be an easy and obvious way of doing that.
-having a closer look at the optiions in the automation lane crashed Muton
You mean in the Sequence Editor?
so did examining the effect options in a channel strip (not sure what exactly the bug was).
Is that: when clicking the options button in the Player Panel; or clicking on a plugslot in a Mixer Strip?
-Midi connection via my delta 2496/evolution keyboard worked like a charm! I have only entered notes so far, I get no noticable latency, tight! :tu:

-I loaded a longish audiofile after creating a "new audio part", works flawlessly so far as I can tell.
OK, thanks for reporting this also, for the technical feedback!
My Muton folder is sitting on the desktop, not in the "applications" folder - maybe this accounts for some of the goings-on? I don't know how fussy OSX is regarding directories...
Should not be a problem, i think.
Bottom line: Exciting times lie ahead, I'll try and do my best as a tester!
Thanks Marco, that surely helps!!

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:58 pm

pljones wrote:Not sure quite why but that's much worse - I didn't think "smaller" would have that much effect (but I do tend to stick with the percentages - they're more predictable).
But percentages to what? What's the 100% then?

I used "smaller" because i just tried to get the same effect as before on my system here, and thought that you would get the same "relative" effect then, which would be better than absolute pixel sizes...

Anyway, i'll stick to the original version for now, pushing this to later, and i'll concentrate on the app itself.
That was adding a third audio track. I've tried to reproduce it but failed. I had also been messing with various plugins and so on, so there's probably something I've forgotten to try involved.?
I'll see whether i can find something based on the data you've sent.
Does it support Acidized WAV files? Can it read the tempo direct from the WAV? More "not in 1.0" features, I guess ;).
Euh, yes, that's right. (i.e. "not in 1.0")

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:13 pm

Bonteburg wrote:-if the "velocity stalks" of two notes coincide, you're automatically altering the velocity of both noes at the same time. (automation lane). You need to nudge the note you want to edit.
What's "nudging"? How do you mean?
-The list editor says "no player" when it's SR202 that's playing. Trying to ook into it crashes Muton.
It might be that the event has No Player, but if the Part is set to SR202, then you'll get sound, because the Part overwrites the Event's Player.

But i'll make that more obvious by graying out the Event's Player if it's overwritten by the Part's Player.
Trying to ook into it crashes Muton.
"Ook into it" what's that. Sorry if i'm stupid :help:

Is that "trying to edit it?"

I tried editing the Player in the List Editor, without crash. It just doesn't do anything at the moment.

-Choosing "pitch bend" in the atuomation dialogue crashes Muton.
Yep, you're right :oops: Will be fixed!
I'm getting this dialogue with loads of code when an app crashes, should I paste this in the thread?
Please send via email first.

muzycian
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1645 posts since 24 May, 2002

Post Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:16 pm

pljones wrote:Mixdown doesn't appear to work here, either. Just got what looks like noise.
Will look into that!
And one "You *MUST* do this" request ;) - I need a "Home" key to get back to the start of the composition quickly without needing to try to click accurately or type "0" into the position.
OK

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