Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

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Scrubbing Monkeys
KVRian
565 posts since 21 Apr, 2017 from Bahia, Brazil

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:50 am

skarabee wrote:Just my 2 cents about Android. I've tried almost everything on this platform, and nothing very good, except Caustic. Android is a good system, but the main concern is latency and so many differents gear and versions. Samsung made some interresting stuff wich allows low latency, but only for some phones and tablet.
There is not so much to gain with Android market. You'll probably loose your time, Jo.

Agreed. IOS maybe. but Android. isnt there. No return for your time.

Caps
KVRist
92 posts since 20 Jul, 2010 from Los Angeles

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:54 pm

I am also thinking of an open source embeded OS. However there must a an API for third parties development. Possibly one of the various Lynix.
Last edited by Caps on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pljones
KVRAF
6279 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:28 pm

Anything with a smaller market size (e.g. than Windows) means higher cost (in developer effort) per feature per user. It can also result in slower development and potentially less stability, resulting in negative customer reaction (which is a significant risk).

The following is based on figures from http://www.netmarketshare.com, figures for 2017:

It's widely assumed that a higher proportion of MacOS users (under 10% of desktops) are likely to have interests in media software (such as a DAW) than Windows (about 90% of desktops). Is it ten times as many? I don't know. It would need to be to achieve parity in market size. The Linux market is a quarter of the MacOS market - so you're looking at needing about fifty Linux users per Windows user interested to achieve parity, which isn't realistic.

Similarly, iOS will likely have a higher proportion of users interested in media software than Android, despite the numbers being like 65% Android, 35% iOS on phones and tablets. Here, only twice the number of users is needed to achieve parity and that's believable (if not easily exceeded), as Android typically isn't seen as a media-oriented platform.

Any market smaller than those main five end up being minuscule and hence needing unrealistic proportions of them having a potential interest in a commercial DAW to make it appear, to me, for any consideration to be given.

--
Note that latency on Android is an issue only if you're trying to play/mix live - for sequenced playback, it's not a problem. (As another example, Stagelight is a fully featured DAW that's available on Android and Windows, with the only additional feature on Windows being VST support.)

Caps
KVRist
92 posts since 20 Jul, 2010 from Los Angeles

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:57 pm

Thank you for your response, will do more research. The embedded OS would reside within the hardware. This would allow 3rd party developers to add value - like we see with the new emerging plug-out architecture.

The benefit is that you keep your favorite keyboard (which incorporates the embedded OS) and physically plug in a hardware module. Unlike the rack mounted component, having different menus and routines you need to learn, the embedded OS would be aware of the hardware from a 3rd party. This allows seamless integration with a centralize OS. This topic deserves a new thread as it is very interesting and also off topic :).

SparkySpark
KVRian
1263 posts since 30 Aug, 2004 from Skövde, Sweden

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:34 pm

I think that there are other options for phones and tablets. Modular DAWs are so special in themselves so I think going that route is a bit of a waste of time... and it sounds like a boring programming task as well!

What _can_ be could are these things in my opinion:

1. The narrated videos as suggested, not by Jo but by the community (see other, promising thread).
2. A free MUX Player version. Would drag in a lot of customers hopefully, and wouldn't hurt business anyway (the point of MUX is really to tweak and make new stuff). It's actually already there as part of the free version of MuLab, just not marketed or packaged separately.
3. Make MuLab and MUX skinnable. Jorgen did that with eXT and it felt so fresh (almost ridiculous). I proposed the idea that in a MUX, there should be a property for inheriting colours from the parent module. Since everything is modular, this could be applied on the highest level, and then inherited by every single thing in the software, I.e. skinnable. Should be a quick thing, basically a property and an if statement plus a UI for the skin setting. Then we in the community could make and share new skins! As stated above, this was a great success in eXT.
Making music is a nine-to-five job:
From 9 PM to 5 AM.
Go MuLab!

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Grizzellda
KVRist
489 posts since 21 Feb, 2015

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:21 pm

I want Jo to narrate! I know english is not his first language, but I'm sure it would sound cool. 8) But will he agree? :hihi: :lol: :hihi:

Also, he has said in the past that skinning is unlikely...not worth the development resources. I would simply ask for as many GUI options as is reasonable, and already there are quite some...a "scrollbar size" parameter would be appreciated here.

But still: MuLab = "effing dopest"... 8) heh, heh...or, "amongst the coolest in the land" :lol:

...hey, wait, can I even say that on the internet? :hihi: :hihi:

Caps
KVRist
92 posts since 20 Jul, 2010 from Los Angeles

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Skinable as a color/background theme or being able to place blocks in different places?

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Michael L
KVRAF
2358 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:08 pm

- I like videos done by users because they show different workflows, different ways of combining modules, and ways to get specific results. To make videos, use Open Broadcaster software which is good and free: https://obsproject.com/download
- We can copy colors from one module to another in Edit Colors>Choose Color, to create a consistent Theme. That's what I did. We can share our Themes via LooksSetup.xml files. If needed, I'm sure we could even have a MuLib section on Themes.
- You can scroll with your mouse: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... ation.html

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Scrubbing Monkeys
KVRian
565 posts since 21 Apr, 2017 from Bahia, Brazil

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:30 am

Michael L wrote:- I like videos done by users because they show different workflows, different ways of combining modules, and ways to get specific results. To make videos, use Open Broadcaster software which is good and free: https://obsproject.com/download
- We can copy colors from one module to another in Edit Colors>Choose Color, to create a consistent Theme. That's what I did. We can share our Themes via LooksSetup.xml files. If needed, I'm sure we could even have a MuLib section on Themes.
- You can scroll with your mouse: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... ation.html
is there a Mulib folder for color themes. I recently did one myself that turned out pretty cool. It was fairly straight forward.

SparkySpark
KVRian
1263 posts since 30 Aug, 2004 from Skövde, Sweden

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:03 am

Michael L wrote:- I like videos done by users because they show different workflows, different ways of combining modules, and ways to get specific results. To make videos, use Open Broadcaster software which is good and free: https://obsproject.com/download
Thanks for the link, hadn't heard of it before. For my students, I use Premiere Pro and Camtasia. Even SnagIt works well, apart from it doesn't have the yellow circle surrounding the pointer. Camtasia comes at circa USD 130, so it's not the end of the world for this undertaking. Premiere Pro is a bit overkill.
Michael L wrote: - We can copy colors from one module to another in Edit Colors>Choose Color, to create a consistent Theme. That's what I did. We can share our Themes via LooksSetup.xml files. If needed, I'm sure we could even have a MuLib section on Themes.
See, this is why I'd like narrated videos :) - had totally forgotten about this setting! I don't think it extends to MUX synths and FX loaded though (but I might be wrong of course). So it seems there is indeed a Skin section available already, so why not include the ability to add the skins in this settings pane (instead of hassling with external xml files? That would be very nice! And once again, it makes software feel surprisingly fresh (just look at Win7 vs Win10).
Making music is a nine-to-five job:
From 9 PM to 5 AM.
Go MuLab!

SparkySpark
KVRian
1263 posts since 30 Aug, 2004 from Skövde, Sweden

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:08 am

Speaking of skins, let me just add that when it comes to general sequencer work, one of my favourite aspects of MuLab is that it is so easy on the eyes.
Making music is a nine-to-five job:
From 9 PM to 5 AM.
Go MuLab!

bibz1st
KVRAF
1528 posts since 29 Mar, 2013

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:31 am

Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:
is there a Mulib folder for color themes. I recently did one myself that turned out pretty cool. It was fairly straight forward.
There is now :)
Beauty is only skin deep,
Ugliness, however, goes right the way through

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Michael L
KVRAF
2358 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:17 am

^^^ Sparkyspark, there are many Theme presets you can Load, in Edit Colors. You can also Save your own. (Xml files are only if you want to share them). You should check it out!

SparkySpark
KVRian
1263 posts since 30 Aug, 2004 from Skövde, Sweden

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:08 am

Michael L wrote:^^^ Sparkyspark, there are many Theme presets you can Load, in Edit Colors. You can also Save your own. (Xml files are only if you want to share them). You should check it out!
Oh my - had no idea! :o

I honestly didn't think Presets... was what I was looking for, but it's of course obvious when one thinks about it. I still think "skins" would sell better. Also, I was not really thrilled about the other presets (so I'll look in MuLib :) ). I'm thinking Crimson Merry would be a good person to get in touch with regarding this - he's a great person at doing skins for music software (he did the graphics of the awesome Sonic Anomaly product line).

Thanks Michael!
Making music is a nine-to-five job:
From 9 PM to 5 AM.
Go MuLab!

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Michael L
KVRAF
2358 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Is there documented of the direction of MUTools plans with their products?

Post Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:50 pm

FYI for those interested in Android, note latency and "glitchiness"
https://juce.com/maq

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