Wish !

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JoPo
KVRist
120 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:35 am

I don't know if one can give a wish for some next update... But I'll allow myself...

For Mux modular. I'd like to have an envelope in which one could set and modulate attac, decay & release curves from exponential -> linear -> to logarithmic.
I can have an exponantial attac time with the MPE but I can't modify in real time the shape of the curve. Or there is perhaps a way to but I don't know it. The most awesome would be to be able to modulate the shape of MPE curves between 2 points !! But it sounds a bit weird since one can add as many points as one wants to that envelope.

I use a lot Mux modular to control a modular synth via my asio outputs. After some tests, I noticed that Mux modular has the lowest latency : 1ms, in front of Reaktor (2 or 3ms) and Expert Sleepers Silent Way (even more !).
But I can't change the curve shapes !

The only solution I've found is to add other envelopes to the attac/decay & release speed ADSR envelope inputs in order to modulate there speed in time. A bit complicated. A dedicated envelope module with plenty of modulation inputs would be great ! :D

Such an envelope would be useful for plenty of other applications ! What do you think about it ? :hyper:
Musica ! here

runaudio
KVRian
1139 posts since 22 Feb, 2014

Re: Wish !

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:23 am

well we r all wishing for mulab 8

levendis
KVRist
67 posts since 23 Mar, 2014

Re: Wish !

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:01 pm

JoPo wrote:The only solution I've found is to add other envelopes to the attac/decay & release speed ADSR envelope inputs in order to modulate there speed in time.
This approach works well.
If you're willing to forego strict timing MPE shaping, then i'd suggest using an LFO to modulate the speeds. The factory shapes are balanced so will contract/dilate MPE's speed to a neutral offset, at the rate of the LFO; ie. the amount of sped-up-ness is compensated for with the amount of slowed-down-ness, every cycle of the LFO.
Adjusting the LFO's amplitude will add dynamism to the MPE's curve tensions. Here's a screengrab of such an example, with the product at far right:
Modulating MPE Speed.PNG
Sure, it's not the same as adjusting tension on segments, but does spice up a plain triangle wave.

Other than using envelopes, here's a more exotic example. Do the same as above but exchange the LFO with the following:
Multi-Form Oscillator ---> Audio to Modulation Converter ---> (Speed)MPE
With Multi-Form Oscillator at a low pitch, you've got a wavetable LFO! Automating the Wave Index parameter would offer oodles of MPE shaping.
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User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
120 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:35 am

--> Levendis

You're right, but after a lot of try, it remains very hard to achieve the exact result I wish. In fact, I'm trying with the ADSR envelope, which seems to me easier : there is 'only' the attac time, decay & release to modulate.
With the MPE, all segments between attac & release looks a bit hard to modulate as wished.
With the ADSR, it's difficult too and I must spend too much time on each note I want to change the curve via midi CC as desired.

To use an LFO or Multi-Form Oscillator at low frequency to do this would add much random factor and I'd like to modulate the curve shape exactly as I want.

A fantastic alternative would be to be able to modulate curve shapes "intensity" parameter, findable by double clicking in the green modulation wires ! Sadly, it's not yet possible to assign it a midi CC.
Musica ! here

bibz1st
KVRAF
1540 posts since 29 Mar, 2013

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:08 am

JoPo wrote: A fantastic alternative would be to be able to modulate curve shapes "intensity" parameter, findable by double clicking in the green modulation wires ! Sadly, it's not yet possible to assign it a midi CC.
I think if you put a Mod Mapper in between you can assign a CC to the Amp parameter of that instead, cant test right now Im at work.
Beauty is only skin deep,
Ugliness, however, goes right the way through

levendis
KVRist
67 posts since 23 Mar, 2014

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:32 am

If you'd like a high degree of certainty, to the curvature of each stage of an envelope, then isn't the outcome achievable with automation clips in your host? Especially given you intend to supply MUX with MIDI cc anyway.
Copy the clip over, to get iterations of the same envelope, then adjust the stage curvature exactly where you need 'em. Every clip would have the same general shape, with variable slopes between breakpoints.

The suggestion i previously made was actually phase-modulation. Speeding up and slowing down the transitions between MPE's breakpoints. This yields curvature. The curvature's rate of change determined by the slope of the modulator.
i agree that unreliable synching to the MPE may be a deal-breaker, if you want the control that the 'Intensity' parameter gives. i too have often wished for some module parameters to be made accessible.

If you don't mind the extra CPU hit, then i have another suggestion. You could use distortion on an audio-fied MPE.
waveshaping.PNG
  • Event Input is supplying note gates to MPE (to launch it). It also supplies MIDI cc to control the 'Balance' parameter in Audio Balancer 1-->2.
  • MPE is sent through a Modulation to Audio Converter, then into the Balancer.
  • The bifurcated signal is sent to 2 distortions; one with positive intensity, the other with negative. The 'Exponential' type transfer function is an option to explore.
The cc controlled 'Balance' will then morph between the tension of the distortions.
Two issues arise here. One is that a linear response is hard to find. The other is that polarity has significant impact on shaping.
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User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
120 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:01 am

-->Bibz1st - Yes but this doesn't modify the curve attac from linear to exponential (for instance) in the mod mapper, the curve shape is not modulable with midi CC.

-->Levendis - Yes... multiplying envelope modules with different settings in each is a good idea maybe the best to be sure how the envelope will behave... But I'm going to fill my screen with envelopes ! :lol:
I didn't think about that one.

Anyway... For the moment, I'm using a Reaktor patch in which I can control every part of my envelope with midi CC. I just have some ms more of latency. I can handle like that : the latency is always the same and can be adjusted with a negative delay on the midi track.

Thanks for all you ideas ! It's never a waste of time !
Musica ! here

bibz1st
KVRAF
1540 posts since 29 Mar, 2013

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 am

No worries :)
Beauty is only skin deep,
Ugliness, however, goes right the way through

nenneb
KVRist
118 posts since 8 Dec, 2015

Re: Wish !

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:03 pm

Sorry, JoPo, I didn't understand your wish at all.
But isn't there any suitable (maybe free) VST out there similar to this:
http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?pl ... ve&id=1644

User avatar
JoPo
KVRist
120 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: Wish !

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 am

:D Sorry, Nenneb ! I try to be as clear as I can but...

With a picture, it mays be easier.
env.jpg
What you see is the attac stage of one of my Scope modular synth envelope. The attac time didn't change, just the way the attac rise on the left = linear, middle = exponential and on the right = logarithmic.
I can change this shape thanks to 2 modulation inputs of this module : one for the 'SLOPE' fader and the other for choosing between log. or exp. : 'CURVE'.
And there is the same for the decay & for the release stage. Those different shapes change dramatically the sound you're modulating !

This is what you can do in the Mux curve editor by double clicking on a MPE segment, for intance, there is even much more choices : exp, exp 2, symetric, etc... Then you set the 'intensity' value. But you can change it only by opening the curve editor which is not accessible in other way.

If we had access to that value of any curve editor (even the wires ones !) by an input to be able to modulate it with midi cc, lfo or whatever, it would be excellent ! :hyper:
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Musica ! here

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