MuLab & MUX Plugin 8.6.9

Official support for: mutools.com
mutools
KVRAF
10560 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:43 am

MuLab 8.6.0 is available in http://www.mutools.com/mulab/beta/

What's changed:
  • MuEcho device now uses Modular Feedback Delays. (instead of a deprecated legacy echo module)
  • MuVerb: The Pre-DSP module list now also includes a Rack and a MUX Modular.
  • Modular Feedback Delay: Finetuned module list.
  • Front panel parameters now have the option to set the displayed parameter name.
  • Front panel parameters now have the option to show their name uppercase.
  • Zooming in/out in the audio editor now purely focuses on the mouse cursor.
  • Audio editor: When very zoomed in, the very right-side of the waveform was not drawn as expected. Fixed.
  • When record count down was set to 0 beats, playback didn't immediately start anymore upon recording. Fixed.
  • Other mini improvements & fixes.
How to update MuLab:
Windows: Replace the current MuLab.exe and MuLab.ID by the new versions.
MacOS: Replace the current MuLab.app by the new version.

keel
KVRian
825 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am

Can you add option that if I scroll down, it will scroll down and not zoom in, just like in every other daw's? If my cursor is in playlist or piano roll and I scroll down, I expect it to scroll down (or scroll up goes up), not to zoom ffs. Try out how other daw's do this. Everytime I try Mulab, I cannot test it more than 30min, because of this. True deal breaker :(

Edit: I also find the "time warping" confusing. Where is the "Live style" warping, where you can just freerly add markers and do the warping?

mutools
KVRAF
10560 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:45 am

keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am
Can you add option that if I scroll down, it will scroll down and not zoom in, just like in every other daw's? If my cursor is in playlist or piano roll and I scroll down, I expect it to scroll down (or scroll up goes up), not to zoom ffs.
Pls see MuLab menu -> Preferences -> "Editor Navigation".

keel
KVRian
825 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:58 am

mutools wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:45 am
keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am
Can you add option that if I scroll down, it will scroll down and not zoom in, just like in every other daw's? If my cursor is in playlist or piano roll and I scroll down, I expect it to scroll down (or scroll up goes up), not to zoom ffs.
Pls see MuLab menu -> Preferences -> "Editor Navigation".
What about it? If you change it (I already knew this) it will scroll sideways, not up and down like I asked you to do. :help:

sdv
KVRian
624 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:07 am

keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:58 am
mutools wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:45 am
keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am
Can you add option that if I scroll down, it will scroll down and not zoom in, just like in every other daw's? If my cursor is in playlist or piano roll and I scroll down, I expect it to scroll down (or scroll up goes up), not to zoom ffs.
Pls see MuLab menu -> Preferences -> "Editor Navigation".
What about it? If you change it (I already knew this) it will scroll sideways, not up and down like I asked you to do. :help:
Keel, you can change the option for the mouse wheel to scroll via Preferences -> "Editor Navigation", then hold Alt+scroll to move the screen up/down.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

keel
KVRian
825 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:03 am

sdv wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:07 am
keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:58 am
mutools wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:45 am
keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am
Can you add option that if I scroll down, it will scroll down and not zoom in, just like in every other daw's? If my cursor is in playlist or piano roll and I scroll down, I expect it to scroll down (or scroll up goes up), not to zoom ffs.
Pls see MuLab menu -> Preferences -> "Editor Navigation".
What about it? If you change it (I already knew this) it will scroll sideways, not up and down like I asked you to do. :help:
Keel, you can change the option for the mouse wheel to scroll via Preferences -> "Editor Navigation", then hold Alt+scroll to move the screen up/down.
What if I don't want to use shorcut for a basic scrolling? As far as I know, Mulab is the only daw which do this. Well, Reaper has something like this also, but it is highly customizabled. All the others daw's let you scroll down = scroll down and same goes up. I don't want to find another shortcut after shortcut for a basic things. I rather would pass whole software, which is, of course, loss for the developer. And I am quite sure that I am not the only one, who feel this way.

But I tested the demo and I like a lot of things, but also some annoying this. These I found out after playing hour with the demo.

- Most limited and annoying demo limitations ever. Save is disabled. You have 30min session limit, you get nag screen / freezees, noises all the time. In 30min, you can jam around like 20min, other time you spend waiting the limitations going away. This is most sh*tties demo limitations ever. How you can expect to do anything with this types of limitation? I feel more like annoyed than inspired to test or buy whole program. :help:

Take a look at FL. Fully working version, only save is disable. Same goes to Bitwig. Cubase, fully working 30day demo. Reason and Live, fully working 30 day demo and so on.

- This scroll zoom thing

- Some plugins steal space bar. If the plugin is open and you space to stop play, nothing happens. So annoying.

- Time warping is sounding superb. Perhaps best in all daws, but it is confusing as hell. How I can (or can you at all?) add markes and move them around just like in Live? :oops:

- There is no midi chase. This is annoying as hell. I guess Mulab and Reason are only daw's which still doesn't have this. Imagine doing like 8-16 bar effects, raisers, long note pads, ambient stuff and so on. How much time you spend just waiting to go and play all the stuff from beginning of the note. Do small change, go again in the beginning and wait, do it again and wait, and wait, and wait.

Even there is some stuff I don't like, otherwise I like it very much. If Jo would add this option to scroll down and up, fix the space bar stealing and add midi chase, I would buy Mulab. :hyper:

And maybe Jo also should do something to the time warping. Like a second mode or something, where you can freely add markers and time warp. Same what you do in Live. There is reason, why it is the most popular one. Only thing is, that it sounds much worse than Mulab's. That's why it would be nice to have similar style of warping on Mulab. I am quite sure that adding this to Mulab, would sell more copies of Mulab. People appreciate quality stuff :phones:

User avatar
dakkra
KVRian
1175 posts since 4 Oct, 2012 from Utah

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:25 am

keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 am
Edit: I also find the "time warping" confusing. Where is the "Live style" warping, where you can just freerly add markers and do the warping?
Not sure if you noticed, but Mulab isn't Live :wink:

On a more serious note though, Mulab does this kind of time stretching with clips inside of Audio Sequences. Clip boundaries can be defined with sample markers or sample positions and then stretched as desired. "Warping" is easily done with two adjacent clips in a sequence.

Audio Sequences are pretty cool as they take after the Bitwig way of doing audio clips, but with multiple lanes making them "polyphonic". I say polyphonic lightly as it has nothing to deal with voicing, but more to deal with audio channels.

I have a long overdue video in the works about how samples, sample markers, sample positions, and audio clips work on Mulab. Hoping to get that done soon, though I've been saying that for months now and recent events have made that a lower priority in my life. I'll summarize the rough idea below:

- Samples are global in Mulab, meaning the same sample loaded in two places, is the same audio. So if you do a DSP function on the sample, it will affect the other location.
- This means samples are not "instanced". This allows to global information to be stored, namely sample markers
- Sample markers can be used to snap sampler and audio clip start/end/loop points
- "Slicing" of a sample is actually done by generating transient markers, and then making clips/samplers (depending on how you import) with boundaries automatically set at the markers. This also means slicing is a non-linear operation (doesn't affect the original sample)
- Time stretching is done with a sampler or audio clip. These are nearly identical in function, but have different interactions. Time stretching is based on start/end points, which may be snapped to markers as defined in the sample. This also means time stretching is a non-linear operation.

Hopefully this cleared up some of the confusion and makes sense.
Soft: Bitwig/Mulab, MUX, MXXX/MSoundFactory, Falcon, Synthmaster(One/2), Melodyne 4 Studio
Hard: Scarlett 2i2 V2, Schiit Audio Magni V3, Sennheiser HD6XX, JBL LSR 305(x2)

User avatar
dakkra
KVRian
1175 posts since 4 Oct, 2012 from Utah

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:31 am

Oh an a helpful tip with making it more Live like in making markers/warping. Import a sample into an audio sequence (no slice). Then right click -> Split Marked -> Drag the boundary between them :D This would be the most similar workflow to what you're after.

This creates a marker at the split point, which you can then use the adjacent clips boundary to warp :tu:

EDIT: Quick and dirty video showing what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-qn0pQ7V0o
Soft: Bitwig/Mulab, MUX, MXXX/MSoundFactory, Falcon, Synthmaster(One/2), Melodyne 4 Studio
Hard: Scarlett 2i2 V2, Schiit Audio Magni V3, Sennheiser HD6XX, JBL LSR 305(x2)

Dominsane
KVRer
3 posts since 16 Apr, 2007

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:07 pm

Well I do agree with keel: scrolling sideways is unusual, and I would also expect to naturally scroll up or down when in piano roll. Talking about the "other daws" that keel mentioned, last year I made the choice of Mulab as a replacement for Synapse Audio Orion in which...scrolling up and down was the default feature...
Definitively more natural for me.
Perhaps it could appear as a third option in editor navigation.
Please :wink:

mutools
KVRAF
10560 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:38 am

keel wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:03 am
What if I don't want to use shorcut for a basic scrolling?
Well it depends on what you define as basic scrolling. Whether the mouse wheel scrolls or zooms is a preference so i assume you already set that to 'scrolls'. Now in the piano roll you can simply mouse wheel over the piano keyboard and it scrolls up/down, just as you want.

The question is what is 'basic scrolling' when the mouse is over the note editor pane. Without modifier MuLab will scroll in the 'main direction' of an editor and for the piano roll that's the time line. That makes sense, don't you agree?

That said pls also note it's simple & easy to pan your piano roll around using right-click-drag.
Pls also see http://www.mutools.com/info/M8/docs/com ... ation.html
- Most limited and annoying demo limitations ever. Save is disabled. You have 30min session limit, you get nag screen / freezees, noises all the time. In 30min, you can jam around like 20min, other time you spend waiting the limitations going away. This is most sh*tties demo limitations ever. How you can expect to do anything with this types of limitation? I feel more like annoyed than inspired to test or buy whole program. :help:
The issue is that there must be multiple demo limitations wrt anti-crack strategy, otherwise when there only is one demo limitation it's a too vulnerable situation. But i have taken note of your feedback and take it serious and will evaluate finetuning the demo limits at appropriate time, maybe with M9. Thanks.
- Some plugins steal space bar. If the plugin is open and you space to stop play, nothing happens. So annoying.
Unfortunately this issue originates outside MuLab. There is a lack of definition in the VST specs wrt keyboard handling, and i assume this same issue also exists in other types of software that uses plugins, eg video editors. The essence *should be* that when the active window is on the plugin then the keys must go to the plugin window as with all computer software. Then it's the plugin who decides whether it uses that key or not, and if not then the plugin should bypass/forward the key and the key should travel up in the UI system and reach the DAW windows so the DAW can define what to do with the key. That's how it should be, imho. But it's not. And that's outside MuLab.
There is no midi chase.
MuLab does do MIDI chase.
But i assume you specifically mean when starting playback in the middle of notes.
Notes are not played half as that often sounds very diferent than playing them from start due to envelopes etc. But i agree it should be an option/preference. It's on the wishlist.

Thanks for all your feedback :tu:

User avatar
Doc Brown
KVRist
465 posts since 13 May, 2012 from Minnesota

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:09 am

Hi Jo

Tried the demo yesterday and it was pretty frustrating with all the demo limitations. I was getting tracks and vst's set up and tweaked and then it times out and I had to start over again. This by far is the most demo restricted daw I've ever tried.

The midi note chasing while playing back in the middle of a note is essential for a lot of people including myself. If you fix that one issue alone I would buy it because I think mulab is really a great daw and is easy on the eyes and the wallet. Keep up the outstanding work.

User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
6662 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:42 am

I don't know if this is new to the beta - going into Audio Setup, choosing an ASIO driver, then opening its Control Panel results in a window that continually loses focus -- the Audio Setup window appears to be stealing it back.

keel
KVRian
825 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:33 am

mutools wrote: That makes sense, don't you agree?
No, it doesn't make any sense and I don't agree. Take a look at how all other daw's are working. Reason, FL, Cubase, Live, Bitwig, Logic, Digital Performer, S1 and so on. They work as you as a user expect them to work. Scroll down = scrolling down, scroll up = scroll up. This is a standard feature. Without any shortcut's of course.

I don't understand why you want to be different than others, and especially I don't understand, why you just can't add a third option, so every single one can use what ever they want. This third option would also help new users, like me, to adapt your program. I am pretty sure that you want new customers and stronger userbase, don't ya. So don't be stubborn, do everything what helps new users to adapt on Mulab :wink:

So, can you please add third option. Scroll up = scroll up, scroll down = scroll down, hold CTRL scroll up = zoom in, scroll down = zoom out. Hold shift and scroll = scroll on sideways. These are like most common used shortcuts on all daw's, and I personally find them to be easiest and fastest.
mutools wrote:
Unfortunately this issue originates outside MuLab.
Excuses. It's same what Urs in Uhe keep telling. "It's not my plugins fault, it's daws fault", and then Image Line is telling "it's plugins fault, not ours. They are badly coded". Blaming each others. Meanwhile everything is just working fine on Cubase, Live, Reason, S1 and so on.

It was same on S1 back then, when I was on S1 beta team and S1 was quite new daw. I complained it a lot and they told me that they cannot fix it and blaimed the plugins. After I whined it more and more and then more people started to also whine, suddenly they just fix it. So I know for fact that it can be done and other daw's have done it already. Question is, are you keep hiding under your excuses or you gonna simply do something about it :ud:
mutools wrote:
But i agree it should be an option/preference. It's on the wishlist.
That is really nice to hear, nice! I hope you add it on asap, because like Doc Brown told, midi chase is essential. It is important, very important.

I also found out that there is no basic duplicate command. Like CTRL+D to duplicate notes and clips. So, can you also add basic duplicate command, CTRL+D and it would be also nice that when it is dublicate the notes / clips, it would automatically move them end of the last note/clip, on the next free bar, so it just doesn't duplicate the notes on top of each others, you know. Thanks! :phones:

nenneb
KVRist
142 posts since 8 Dec, 2015

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:17 pm

Just ctrl-drag a note and you have a copy placed where you leave it. That's much much better then CTRL-D.
And please Keel calm down.
If you get a new car, maybe a switch is on a different place as you expect it. You will get used to it.
I use a big number of programs - CAD, CAM, DAW, Office, PhotoPaint ... - and all of them work slightly different. Some can be adapted, others not. I learned that and it's no problem for me.
Yes, MuLab is different in some ways to other DAWs. And that's why I love it, as - if once you got it - working with it is really easy and you can focus on music instead of menus and pages. I threw Cubase away for MuLab, as MuLab is much more inspiring.
You cannot judge after your first test with a limited demo.
Buy your copy as it is cheap and worth the money. Then do a song or two hassling with the maybe unsed behaviour, look into the manuals and you will like it too.

dreammachine_nl
KVRist
30 posts since 23 Jun, 2004

Re: MuLab 8.6.0 beta

Post Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:44 am

mutools wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:43 am
  • Zooming in/out in the audio editor now purely focuses on the mouse cursor.
  • Audio editor: When very zoomed in, the very right-side of the waveform was not drawn as expected. Fixed.
  • When record count down was set to 0 beats, playback didn't immediately start anymore upon recording. Fixed.
Thanks for fixing these quirks and bugs, they all work fine now.

However, beta version 8.6.0 (32 bit) introduces a serious crash bug when previewing Muclips via Mulab's browser. Just start clicking on random Muclips (previewing them via Mulab's browser) and you will see that level meters start clipping (like +300dB or so, when you hover the mouse over them), noises/clicks appear and finally, after previewing a random amount of Muclips (at least more than 6?) Mulab will crash, leaving some audio buffer constantly looping. I couldn't find this audio buffer in Task Manager to kill it and even a restart of the computer doesn't clear the buffer, but unplugging the power cord from the computer seems to do the job.

Release version 8.5.4 (32 bit) works ok, but I think (not sure though) that I've seen this behaviour before in other Mulab 8 beta versions, but not in the release versions.

Could anyone be so kind as to verify this bug?

Regards, TDM.

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