FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

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sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Post Thu May 07, 2020 5:55 pm

Would love to see an Event module of the Phrase Arpeggiator type. The closest thing on the market which I can compare my idea to is the Nora plugin (which has a 5 octave range with up to 8 notes per octave (for monster 15th chords -is there even such a thing?) or the newer Phrasebox. The reason for a phrase arp is bc they are note agnostic, you create the phrase which is then triggered by the chords coming into it hence very reusable no matter the key or chords of your project. Would be sweet to save the phrase a form-of-MuClip call it a MuPhrase (the phrase is there, just not the MIDI note data) and then load it into the Phrase arp.

Here's a pic of the Nora to give you an idea. In this example there are three sets; 1, 0, -1, of three rows. The sets refer to either the same notes as the original incoming chord; 0, or transposed up an octave; 1, or down; -1. I'm sending a triad to this track and in the first bar I am playing an upward arp in the original octave then a downward arp in the lower transposed octave. In the second bar I'm all over the map triggering notes of different lengths, some overlapping, across all three octaves.

While the Step Sequencer can arpeggiate it would be very difficult to create something like this using the Length and Offset settings. And, even if you were to be able to construct something like this it wouldn't be as visually 'grokable' as what I'm picturing.
phraseArp2.JPG
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Last edited by sdv on Fri May 08, 2020 9:51 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

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Michael L
KVRAF
3115 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 pm

In what ways does that go beyond the Step Sequencer MUX Module?
MuLab goes with The Flows...

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Thu May 07, 2020 8:42 pm

Michael L wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 pm
In what ways does that go beyond the Step Sequencer MUX Module?
The chords don't arpeggiate in the traditional fashion, rather there are lanes for the notes which comprise a chord and you decide on the placement over the location and length of notes (but they conform to the notes of the chord).
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

mutools
KVRAF
10557 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Fri May 08, 2020 12:06 am

Sounds like the current arpeggiator: First note is mapped to first note of chord, 2nd note in arp becomes 2nd note in chord, ... Please explain the difference.

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Fri May 08, 2020 9:50 am

mutools wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:06 am
Sounds like the current arpeggiator: First note is mapped to first note of chord, 2nd note in arp becomes 2nd note in chord, ... Please explain the difference.
I updated my OP to reflect the differences and what a Phrase Arpeggiator is all about.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

mutools
KVRAF
10557 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm

Thanks but i still don't understand. Maybe also because i'm working on other FRs. I'm sorry but i'll have to postpone this. Sorry.

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Fri May 08, 2020 3:45 pm

mutools wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm
Thanks but i still don't understand. Maybe also because i'm working on other FRs. I'm sorry but i'll have to postpone this. Sorry.
No worries. I know I'm not being 100% clear and indeed, you have bigger fish to fry, so to speak.
Just for another example, to do something similar in the Step Sequencer - I sent a C-E-G chord to the module with the settings in the photo (set to Arpeggiator and 'Low to High') and recorded the output. It's an interesting workflow but the results are a tad unpredictable compared to my OP. That said...

I find that the idea of mapping the Length dials to a MIDI controller which I then transposed at X# bars
to be quite fascinating. So, oddly enough for me, I'd say at least don't change the Step Sequencer implementation of the Arpeggiator (which you'd never do), and additionally - don't change anything (which you'd never do) - as just a Phrase Arp would be a bitchin' addition at some point. The current trend in software seems to be going to Music Theory apps bc a new wave of 'producers' are chomping at the bit to unleash their latest trance epic as soon as they figure out what a triad is! ;)
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"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

mutools
KVRAF
10557 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Sat May 09, 2020 12:01 am

sdv wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:45 pm
Just for another example, to do something similar in the Step Sequencer - I sent a C-E-G chord to the module with the settings in the photo (set to Arpeggiator and 'Low to High') and recorded the output. It's an interesting workflow but the results are a tad unpredictable compared to my OP.
I see on the picture other notes than the C-E-G. So i assume you were also sending other chords. If not then it sounds like you are reporting a bug. Please share a little project where the step sequencer arpeggiator does not work as expected. Thanks.

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
9015 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 am

Have you had a play with Modulys, it runs unrestricted in Mulab

https://www.raxntrax.com/modulys/

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Sat May 09, 2020 10:51 am

mutools wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:01 am
sdv wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:45 pm
Just for another example, to do something similar in the Step Sequencer - I sent a C-E-G chord to the module with the settings in the photo (set to Arpeggiator and 'Low to High') and recorded the output. It's an interesting workflow but the results are a tad unpredictable compared to my OP.
I see on the picture other notes than the C-E-G. So i assume you were also sending other chords. If not then it sounds like you are reporting a bug. Please share a little project where the step sequencer arpeggiator does not work as expected. Thanks.
Oh, there's no bug. I was fiddling about with transposing and using the Mod Groups to tweak notes on the fly - that's the cause of non C-E-G notes.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Sat May 09, 2020 10:54 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 am
Have you had a play with Modulys, it runs unrestricted in Mulab

https://www.raxntrax.com/modulys/
I've tried working with Modulys but it's buggy when it comes to saving its information. Sadly, not much good if one can't save presets.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Tue May 12, 2020 12:24 pm

All I can say is if MuLab 9 gets MIDI upgrade and you include things such as a Chord Track and Scale Templates please get in touch with me again to explain this concept (or check out videos on Nora and PhraseBox plugins) bc it would be a *huge* feature to add.
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

mutools
KVRAF
10557 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Tue May 12, 2020 2:53 pm

Did you also try doing that using the "Sequence Player" module and using it in Arpeggiator mode?
That way you can create a phrase sequence for the Sequence Player where C4 will be replaced by the first note, C#4 by the 2nd note and so on, cfr the info on http://www.mutools.com/info/M8/docs/mux ... nce-player
Set the Sequence Player Start Mode to Instant Start. Then send chords to the Sequence Player. Isn't it that what you want?

sdv
KVRian
623 posts since 15 Sep, 2003

Re: FR: MIDI Phrase Arpeggiator

Post Tue May 12, 2020 4:51 pm

mutools wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 2:53 pm
Did you also try doing that using the "Sequence Player" module and using it in Arpeggiator mode?
Set the Sequence Player Start Mode to Instant Start. Then send chords to the Sequence Player. Isn't it that what you want?
:hug: :hug: :hug:
Ohhh snap!! This feature's been hiding under my nose this entire time!! I'm always learning of some gem hidden away in here. I mean, it's kinda listed in the manual but I just never understood it. I am as happy as a clam!! This is exactly what I was looking for!! :D :clap:
"Music is directly tied to the technology of a culture."
"Modular gear is the craft beer of music."

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