Dead Duck Reducktion

Talk about all things "KVR Developer Challenge" related.
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GRRRRRRR!
11956 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:15 pm

resynthesis wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:36 am
OT but red light is used at night due to the lack of response of rhodopsin in rods rather than its characteristic energy.
Think about it - why is there a lack of response? It's because the light is low energy, which is why it is only effective at low levels and a sufficiently bright red light will kill your night vision. It's all about the energy.
The late night thing is related to the effects of light on melatonin production - blue light suppresses it.
Again, the trigger isn't the colour, it's the energy it represents.
It's frequency related rather than energy as I remember.
Same thing - higher frequency equals higher energy. Think about a light bulb with a dimmer - at low energy levels the filament glows a reddish-orange colour but as you increase the energy more colours are added up the spectrum until you get pure white.
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KVRist
63 posts since 11 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:10 am

swatwork wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:18 am
Clem4 wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:55 am
I tried to midi map Reducktion with my controller on ableton but it doesn't work....
it works with Deducktion so I suppose it's something you'll add to Reducktion
It should work with Reducktion, it has pretty much the same MIDI Learn system I implemented in Deducktion. Can you provide more information about what wasn't working.

Edit: just a reminder that MIDI controllers don't currently work with the sequencer, but normal playback should be able to receive pitch-bend, mod wheel, etc, and anything you've assigned through MIDI learn.
Well today it worked but not at the first try... really strange
but I'm not sure automations will work. I can send you a short video I made but you don't accept PM and there is no email on your website.

Also I think you could add a 125% for full hd screens. 100% is good when recording tracks but too small for editing the synth. 150% take all the screen.

KVRist
378 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:01 am

Clem4 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:10 am
Well today it worked but not at the first try... really strange
but I'm not sure automations will work. I can send you a short video I made but you don't accept PM and there is no email on your website.
If you mean host parameter automation then this won't work because Reducktion doesn't expose any parameters (other than volume) to the host. You can automate parameters by assigning CC values through MIDI learn and sending them from the host but there's no direct VST parameter automation.

KVRist
63 posts since 11 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:29 am

swatwork wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:01 am
Clem4 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:10 am
Well today it worked but not at the first try... really strange
but I'm not sure automations will work. I can send you a short video I made but you don't accept PM and there is no email on your website.
If you mean host parameter automation then this won't work because Reducktion doesn't expose any parameters (other than volume) to the host. You can automate parameters by assigning CC values through MIDI learn and sending them from the host but there's no direct VST parameter automation.
Yes that's exactly what I mean. Deducktion do it. Will you add it to Reducktion ?

KVRist
378 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:09 am

Clem4 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:29 am
Yes that's exactly what I mean. Deducktion do it. Will you add it to Reducktion ?
No, hiding the internal parameters from the host is a deliberate design decision and I've no plans to change this.

Keeping them hidden gives me a lot more freedom to change the internal implementation of the plugin's features without affecting DAW recall and preset compatibilty and is important for its long-term maintainability.

KVRist
378 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:26 am

Clem4 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:10 am
Also I think you could add a 125% for full hd screens. 100% is good when recording tracks but too small for editing the synth. 150% take all the screen.
This is a good idea, I'll add this scale once the DC is over. :tu:

KVRist
378 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:47 am

Reducktion has been updated to version 1.0.0.3

This fixes a bug in the sequencer where a note would be skipped if played against a step with a velocity of 0.

https://static.kvraudio.com/files/2274/ ... _0_0_3.zip

KVRAF
6135 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm

ok, i like what i am hearing so far from reduction. but imho it still has quite some flaws which would keep me from using it.

- any env routed to the cutoff has a very noticable ramp-up to the env depth one sets up in the matrix. this makes hard and kinda instant attacks practically impossible - especially with high resonance.

- the legato glide isn't really legato in the sense that a real legato glide really only glides, if the notes are actively overlapping by holding more than one note. reduction also glides after note off in the release stage.

- when in legato glide mode, env 2+3 still retrigger. in essence what i am trying to say, that the implementation of mono modes and the glide isn't as it imho should be. first off, there should be two glide modes, regardless of monophonic or polyphonic voice mode. the glide should be always working, when other than 0 - also in polyphonic mode. then there should be a mode where one can decide, if the glide should be always active on every note on and one that strictly glides only, when notes are really triggered overlapped (legato). then there should be two mono modes. one that always retriggers the envelopes and one that does not retrigger the envelopes when notes are overlapped and only retriggers, if all envelopes are in release stage or all voices are off. i hope i could make myself clear.

- the filter actually sounds quite nice. but when using self oscillation and only one osc, the osc level isn't loud enough in order to let the filter unveil its nice sounding saturation. a rough ballpark would be that the self oscillation would have the same level of the fundamental of a c1 triggered saw.

- there's no way to modulate any of the two fm ratio amounts?

- when the osc is in wave mode, unison 1 spreads two saw as it seems (at least that should be the lowest wave count for a stereo osc anyway, from then on 4, then 6, then 8, etc) - but the panning of one wave seems to be in the center - whatever it is that goes wrong here results in a strong tendency towards one side of the stereo field in mode one.

- to me the arp misses an "note order" mode, often also called "as played"

- there's sadly no "alternate" source in the matrix (which would play nicely with a voice based panning and the arp), where every voice is panned in alternating fashion.

- there's sadly no random sources in the matrix, both uni and bipolar.

- there's sadly no random'n glide waveform in the lfos

- the lfos suffer from the same problem above described, only the opposite - they don't retrigger in retrigger mode, when the voice is in amp release stage. they should always retrigger after a note off, when in retrigger mode. ideally, as soon as in retrigger mode, they should be per voice...

that's what i came across when noodling around for a few hours. it's kinda sad, as i actually really like the basic sound of it.
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

KVRist
378 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am

Thanks for your comments, I'm still working through some of them but here are some initial thoughts.
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's no way to modulate any of the two fm ratio amounts?
Yes, I overlooked this during development; it'll be added after the DC. :dog:
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- when the osc is in wave mode, unison 1 spreads two saw as it seems ... but the panning of one wave seems to be in the center
Yes, the 'main' oscillator always remains in the centre with the unison oscs added left/right. For odd unison values this leaves the stereo field unbalanced when spread is used. I intend to address this in a future update.
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- to me the arp misses an "note order" mode, often also called "as played"
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no "alternate" source in the matrix ...
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no random'n glide waveform in the lfos
These would be nice to have, thanks for the suggestions. :tu:
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no random sources in the matrix, both uni and bipolar.
There is a unipolar random source in the mod matrix which can be made bipolar using a negative constant.

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KVRian
1160 posts since 21 Apr, 2017 from Bahia, Brazil

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:09 am

Thanks for the interest in developing this a bit further.
Glad to hear the FM modulation is getting some love.
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KVRAF
6135 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:52 am

swatwork wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am
Thanks for your comments, I'm still working through some of them but here are some initial thoughts.
oh you're welcome. thanks for considering.
swatwork wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's no way to modulate any of the two fm ratio amounts?
Yes, I overlooked this during development; it'll be added after the DC. :dog:
yeah i thought so. i mean not to be able to modulate these doesn't really make any sense, so i figured you might just have overlooked this... :)
swatwork wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- when the osc is in wave mode, unison 1 spreads two saw as it seems ... but the panning of one wave seems to be in the center
Yes, the 'main' oscillator always remains in the centre with the unison oscs added left/right. For odd unison values this leaves the stereo field unbalanced when spread is used. I intend to address this in a future update.
that's nice to hear. it would really make more sense to work with even numbers over 1 and spread them evenly. i never saw the need of odd numbers, where one wave has to be centered. because if i would want the stereo field not to be too wide, i can shrink it anyway.
the only reason i could see odd counts making sense is, if you'd actually mix one osc in the center with just a fraction of level of the leftover even waves. i personally never use that and on top of it i could use another plain osc to achieve this.
swatwork wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- to me the arp misses an "note order" mode, often also called "as played"
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no "alternate" source in the matrix ...
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no random'n glide waveform in the lfos
These would be nice to have, thanks for the suggestions. :tu:
really glad you consider them... :tu:
swatwork wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:54 am
brok landers wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:12 pm
- there's sadly no random sources in the matrix, both uni and bipolar.
There is a unipolar random source in the mod matrix which can be made bipolar using a negative constant.
oh, i must have overlooked this - will noodle around with that as aoon as i'm in the studio... thanks... :tu:
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

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GRRRRRRR!
11956 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:53 pm

brok landers wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:52 am
it would really make more sense to work with even numbers over 1 and spread them evenly. i never saw the need of odd numbers, where one wave has to be centered.
I'm the opposite - I always work with odd numbers of unison voices, in the hope one will remain centred. When I used to make synths in SynthEdit, I always did my unison so that the only options were 1, 3, 5, or 7 and "1" was always in the centre.
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KVRAF
6135 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:52 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:53 pm
brok landers wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:52 am
it would really make more sense to work with even numbers over 1 and spread them evenly. i never saw the need of odd numbers, where one wave has to be centered.
I'm the opposite - I always work with odd numbers of unison voices, in the hope one will remain centred. When I used to make synths in SynthEdit, I always did my unison so that the only options were 1, 3, 5, or 7 and "1" was always in the centre.
why?
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

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GRRRRRRR!
11956 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:05 pm

So that when you went from 1 to 3, you were just adding to what was already there, not replacing one thing with another.
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KVRAF
6135 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:05 pm
So that when you went from 1 to 3, you were just adding to what was already there, not replacing one thing with another.
i see. well, i never wanted to add to the existing. i am the exact opposite - i always wanted to choose either/or, as i wouldn't want to loose the widespread of evenly spread waveforms. should i want to narrow the image, i could do so with the spread/width anyway. so i love synths that go 1,2,4,6 etc.. at least if that "superwave" is stereo. if it's not, i could go with the way you prefer, as the count then doesn't really matter.
but actually, one could have both approaches at the same time:
your way could be implemented, so that there's a mix knob, which allows for the even count to be mixed in to the existing centered wave - but 1:1 would be mix slider half way. then when the mix slider would be max, only the added spread waves are heard - the pure "wet signal" so to say, without the main centered ways. that would give the user the possibility to freely choose, which approach to use - and any combination in between.
i've actually never seen it implemented, so that when mix slider at max, only the "wet portion" was present - it was always 50:50 centered wave/mixed in waves.
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

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