SOLVED Grabable controls visible to midi devices such as the NEKTAR P6

[mitchiemasha]

Currently for some unknown reason to me, only the master filter is grabbed by the Nektar P6 midi controller. It's the only function it can learn. This is something to do with how a VST makes things visible (I don't know what i'm talking about), other VST's make more parameters "visible" and those parameters can be grabbed, such as the envelops. Sylenth1 isn't overly crazy so would be an awesome synth to have perfectly integrated.

If the parameters are "visible" we don't have to use things like Nektarine (a wrapper). We can use that to make the maps, name the knobs etc in standalone mode but leave it out once in Cubase.

We can do things the other way round like old midi controllers but this won't give us the feedback on the screen and the advanced navigation

Any chance Sylenth1 will make these "visible" in whatever way the master filter is and other synths reveal other parameter.

Any more info, input on this would be seriously appreciated.

edit: I'm on about the "deep" integration here not standard CC

Thank you

[mitchiemasha]

I'm losing my mind over this. Is there anybody who can help? Please

[Lennard]

Hi,

The 'master filter' (I assume you mean the Filter Control Cutoff on Sylenth1 by that?) is no different that any of the other parameters only Sylenth1 in terms of visibility to the DAW. Every knob/control on Sylenth1 can be automated either through host automation or midi automation. To learn any knob/control on Sylenth1 to any knob/fader on your midi keyboard, just right-click the knob and select 'Midi Learn' then turn any knob on your controller to learn it.

If you're not using direct midi (CC/(N)RPN) automation, then you're probably running some wrapper that wraps midi CC data (or any controller specific data) to VST parameter (host automation). In that case you'll have to look through wrapper/controller user manual on how to learn a knob to a VST parameter.

[mitchiemasha]

Hi,

The 'master filter' (I assume you mean the Filter Control Cutoff on Sylenth1 by that?) is no different that any of the other parameters only Sylenth1 in terms of visibility to the DAW. Every knob/control on Sylenth1 can be automated either through host automation or midi automation. To learn any knob/control on Sylenth1 to any knob/fader on your midi keyboard, just right-click the knob and select 'Midi Learn' then turn any knob on your controller to learn it.

If you're not using direct midi (CC/(N)RPN) automation, then you're probably running some wrapper that wraps midi CC data (or any controller specific data) to VST parameter (host automation). In that case you'll have to look through wrapper/controller user manual on how to learn a knob to a VST parameter.

Thank you for your reply.

The Nektar P6 doesn't use a wrapper (but the wrapper for the T series can be used for it), it has standard midi mode like basic controllers as you've mentioned but this is deeper than that. It's like automap (but much better), it doesn't created new .dll files, it creates it's own map files which we can edit in the controller (or the standalone version of the T series wrapper). If there isn't already a map, it "grabs" all the parameters and we can then change this. it's the "Grab" that isn't working, Sylenth1 is only showing the master filter as grabable.

A lot of synths have many grabable and non grabable parameters so it's something to do with the code of the synth and what it displays to the DAW, and what the DAW displays to the P6. I understand basic midi and CC's but this is something different. If it's not "grabable" it can't be used.

But i'm getting this other issue where I seem to have 2 different versions of sylenth 1 and 1 device is seeing the other.

"I've narrowed my P6 SYLENTH1 Nektarine Cubase conflict down to 1 main issue. The P6 completely ignores the mapping file in Nektarine if from Cubase, and vice versa, the P6 completely ignores the mapping file in Cubase if from Nektarine.

This only happens with Sylenth1, I've done changes and new files with other synths and they crossport.

The best way to describe it is as though Cubase and Nektarine are loading different versions of Sylenth1, the mapping file made is for a different synth. I've tried checking vst2/3 etc but sylenth is VST2 only and I have no 32 bit

Interestingly... when the Sylenth1 map file is copied across, when saving a new file that would save in that same folder, it doesn't overwrite as it would normally, the save adds a number to the end like the software wasn't using the file there already, and windows adds the extra number because it's the same name, which supports my belief.

Total Madness!!!

[mitchiemasha]

I've spoke to another user who swears that it maps for him but he might be using an older version of Sylenth, as he made the map some time ago. I've opened a ticket with Nektar but they're not replying... As the Nektar P6 comes with a premade map for Sylenth so they'd know if they only mapped 1 knob.

Thank you

[Lennard]

Please understand that there is no such thing as 'grabable' parameters from Sylenth1's point of view. Sylenth1 simply publishes a list of VST parameters that a DAW can work with. What happens between your controller and your DAW I cannot say, it depends on what software/wrappers/drivers your controller uses and how it integrates. It's DAW/controller specific so I can't really help you there.

[mitchiemasha]

Please understand that there is no such thing as 'grabable' parameters from Sylenth1's point of view. Sylenth1 simply publishes a list of VST parameters that a DAW can work with. What happens between your controller and your DAW I cannot say, it depends on what software/wrappers/drivers your controller uses and how it integrates. It's DAW/controller specific so I can't really help you there.

Yes... It's this list of controls the controller crabs from. There's something in that list of what is "pushed" that makes the controller able to "Grab" the parameter from the DAW. Whatever you did to the Filter Control, would need to be on the other controls. Spire for example has nearly all the parameters available but not all the FX. It's not something that has been done intentionally for this purpose... but the manufactures of the controller have realised away to have this information displayed with in the controller. It's entirely down to how the VST shows itself to the DAW to what it can grab.

The only Synth I know that is fully "Grabbable" I think was one of Rob Papens but I've not used it, it was mentioned in a few of the videos explaining how it works. He was very specific that it's nothing to do with the controller in that sense, it's all to do with how the VST is coded. If the parameter is presented to the DAW in a certain way (as your filter control is), the Nektar can grab it. Which it then saves as a file for memory recall.

Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it. I would love for this to work, it would be a dream.

[mitchiemasha]

Yes it is Predetor, it's mentioned near the bottom of this page.

https://nektartech.com/panorama-cubase/

The next section is the "Learn" which i refer to as "Grab", which can customise premade maps or make your own. The controller can only learn, what the VST, present to Cubase, then Cubase presents to the DAW, as controllable. For some knobs to be and other knobs not to be it has to be in the VST code in "presenting as controllable". The P6 can see hundreds of parameters if they are presented in the required way it needs.

[mitchiemasha]

Sylenth1 does present it controls to the P series... I'm getting a glitch with Cubase and Sylenth1. Other synths are working as expected. In this video we can see the parameters displayed for a brief second before being discarded.

https://youtu.be/H0y_i-w6XDw

[mitchiemasha]

If anyone happens to stumble upon this issue...

Sylenth1 does work completely, many controls and switchable sub menus. There was a serious glitch somewhere in my Cubase set up. Reinstalling Sylenth1, the P series, and even Cubase, didn't fix it, many days of trying different combinations. The only thing that worked was a fresh windows installation, now everything is as it should be. I'm on my 2nd day reinstalling VST's. Happy days!

I'll mark this thread as SOLVED... Sylenth1 is now fixed, although we're still not sure what caused the glitch (edit: Cubase remote editor was loading with only 1 knob assigned, resetting this would fix the issue).

and, I still need to understand my initial question. Spire has a few important controls missing. Wet/dry mix for the for the last 3 FX. It works for first 2 FX but not last 3. When checking Cubase Remote Editor, Spire is reporting the dial to Cubase as the others but they're not grabable to learn like the others in the P6. But, that's not for here.

If anyone does finally understand my noise and can offer light, I'd love to read it. Thank you

ANSWERED IN NEXT POST! Cubase limits presentable controls. Only the first 256 parameters of a VST are presented.

[mitchiemasha]

My reply came in today from NEKTAR and i now have some answers. This is the limitation restricting learnable controls.

"Cubase will only present the first 256 parameters associated with an instrument (or 88 effect parameters)."

The good news is...

"We can reorder the parameters in Cubase Remote Editor."

And, it really is simple. Open Cubase remote editor from the VST, activate learn in remote editor, select a knob we don't need in remote editor, twiddle the dial we need in the VST that's outside the first 256, click apply, now the P6 can "grab" that knob... learning it, like all the other knobs.