Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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telecharge
KVRist
428 posts since 22 Feb, 2014

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:26 am

dasen wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:44 pm
Do you use chord generator plugins or similar chord tools to help you create chords? Which are your favorites?
You'll likely find some useful info in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=517113

datroof
KVRist
140 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:09 am

jancivil wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:58 am
actually Datroof's idea if successful would tend to give you things you may not have thought of, knowing what you're after giving it more sophisticated cues than just key/scale but there is probably no such thing on the marketplace currently.
Surprisingly, no. What I was talking about (in prev post) is all basic database/query functionality. The trick is understanding the relationships well enough to model the data properly (this is the part I haven't seen anyone do well yet. Surprising considering how many software geek/musicians there are out there). But once you've done that, you just load up your database with data, and start querying. It's pretty simple stuff. I was working on it 25 years ago or so. I have long planned to put a draft of my software up on the internet for free use, but haven't made the time to finish the project.

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Michael L
KVRAF
2715 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:42 am

There is a bit of work being done on analysing musicians' choices and developing algorithms. See the website of Rui Dias http://www.ruidias.pt and his project on real-time performance in the style of different musicians: A computer-mediated Interface for Jazz Piano Comping.

(Slightly related but I have not tried it, is the hooktheory app which has an API you can program in xml with chord-probabilities-by-musician.)

A personal interest of mine is that software cannot reflect the different ways a chord is voiced, such as in this famous improvisation by Keith Jarrett on two chords:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqK1JJOFxw

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vurt
addled muppet weed
46974 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:46 am

chords are a passing fad.

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risome
KVRAF
2017 posts since 30 Oct, 2006 from Australia, NSW

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 am

I have reasonable musical theory knowledge but use Scaler.I still move individual notes around from the suggestions but it can also offer interesting suggestions i may not have considered.Its a good tool IMHO but i don't expect it to compose for me carte blanch.
Last edited by risome on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael L
KVRAF
2715 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:05 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:46 am
chords are a passing fad.
Yes! In his paper (cited above) Dias calculates chord voicing using the highest note (!) which lets a player "use passing notes or small melodic phrases to respond, incite or provoke the other players" thus creating a "fad" (a form of collective behavior in which a group of people enthusiastically follow an impulse for a finite period.) :P

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jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:51 am

chords are a passing fad. :hihi:


I create vertical interest writing linearly. Except for the Satie adaptations where I reproduce his chords and sometimes impose things on them or reharmonize), I have not considered a chord name in decades. In those things there is a certain jazz thinking which is actually a strong suit, but I prefer the freedom of no prejudice in my own work.

SO, the software isn't going to know anything in any of these cases.
In the bit at 0:49, I had goals harmonically but I'm "writing" counterpoint (actually improvising it). In the last section I'm kinda sorta thinking harmonically (as I analyzed what Satie wrote) but I wouldn't name the harmonies I came up with, it doesn't matter, I'm not putting in out there for others to improvise on or anything. And anyway what Satie did did not make normal sense or cadence right. It would be interesting academically or abstractly to see what somebody writing a paper about analysis from the top down came up with if there was an app for it. OTOH I think WWWSD would be good as a course.

Fantasy on a Theme of Satie

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sqigls
KVRAF
3803 posts since 25 Dec, 2004 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:57 am

don't listen to these newbee amatures dasen.

get yourself a copy of Dope Turbo Pro XL and you'll never look back.

writes itself

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mgw38
KVRAF
1777 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:59 am

I am trained in classical piano to the point where I almost made it my career choice once. And while I have not really played much in literally decades, I still have all my music theory in muscle memory. But at the same time I do have most of the chord tools out there and like to use them regularly.

The thing is that unless you are a real musical genius, you will always fall back into the same overall musical structure regardless of how well you know your theory. What I like about these generator tools is that they force you out of your comfort zone. Well, not all of them, but some do.

For example, I do like how Orb Composer throws stuff at me that I would not even have remotely thought of. And even if it sounds weird 99% of the time, there is usually always a moment where it produces an unexpected phrase or an idea that I can continue to take further. But I never really use the software to fully produce something. It is always only for inspiration.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:42 am

I suppose I'm a real music genius then, because no, that is so not me, I never repeat myself. I work freely by ear and imagination, without prejudice. In that example, there is an absolute departure for me which is not a model for anything in future which I came up with out of nowhere and I'll not do the likes of ever again. Sometimes it's so clearly me, but the actual content is, all the pieces are unique and decisions follow ideas. I could be said to have 'a harmonic language' but there is a gigantic difference between me being modal vs the total chromatic vs microtonal fabric. Let alone repurposing Satie which was different every time as well.

So my advisements may be a lot of nothing to somebody who is being totally conventional, but even so, if the idea is to START and you're using this as a crutch, let's go with the metaphor, your legs are never really under you.

Everybody's different but I personally have no especial need to arbitrarily switch things up. I could make a whopping mistake which is magical for that matter. I don't write from keyboard muscle memory, I write from imagination on the spur of the moment. There is just a lot more available to us than chord progressions and tonality.
Last edited by jancivil on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
46974 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:44 am

you can say that again...

datroof
KVRist
140 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:51 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:51 am
chords are a passing fad. :hihi:


I create vertical interest writing linearly. Except for the Satie adaptations where I reproduce his chords and sometimes impose things on them or reharmonize), I have not considered a chord name in decades. In those things there is a certain jazz thinking which is actually a strong suit, but I prefer the freedom of no prejudice in my own work.

SO, the software isn't going to know anything in any of these cases.
In the bit at 0:49, I had goals harmonically but I'm "writing" counterpoint (actually improvising it). In the last section I'm kinda sorta thinking harmonically (as I analyzed what Satie wrote) but I wouldn't name the harmonies I came up with, it doesn't matter, I'm not putting in out there for others to improvise on or anything. And anyway what Satie did did not make normal sense or cadence right. It would be interesting academically or abstractly to see what somebody writing a paper about analysis from the top down came up with if there was an app for it. OTOH I think WWWSD would be good as a course.

Fantasy on a Theme of Satie
I've found "set-class" theory notation, the Allan Forte list of set-classes, and all of that stuff, to be really handy in a lot of ways, but especially for dealing with groupings of notes that don't fit conventional labeling, or movement that isn't based on common practice, chord changes or jazz theory. I know you're familiar with this Jan - but I highly recommend folks at least take a look at the 20th century "atonal/non-tonal/post-tonal" concepts, even if the resulting music doesn't appeal to you, because they are systematic attempts to escape conventional music theory, and they introduce some handy concepts - different ways of looking at and notating music.

datroof
KVRist
140 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:52 am

mgw38 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:59 am
I am trained in classical piano to the point where I almost made it my career choice once. And while I have not really played much in literally decades, I still have all my music theory in muscle memory. But at the same time I do have most of the chord tools out there and like to use them regularly.

The thing is that unless you are a real musical genius, you will always fall back into the same overall musical structure regardless of how well you know your theory. What I like about these generator tools is that they force you out of your comfort zone. Well, not all of them, but some do.

For example, I do like how Orb Composer throws stuff at me that I would not even have remotely thought of. And even if it sounds weird 99% of the time, there is usually always a moment where it produces an unexpected phrase or an idea that I can continue to take further. But I never really use the software to fully produce something. It is always only for inspiration.
+1

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jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:59 am

datroof wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:51 am
I've found "set-class" theory notation, the Allan Forte list of set-classes, and all of that stuff, to be really handy in a lot of ways, but especially for dealing with groupings of notes that don't fit conventional labeling, or movement that isn't based on common practice, chord changes or jazz theory. I know you're familiar with this Jan - but I highly recommend folks at least take a look at the 20th century "atonal/non-tonal/post-tonal" concepts, even if the resulting music doesn't appeal to you, because they are systematic attempts to escape conventional music theory, and they introduce some handy concepts - different ways of looking at and notating music.
I quite agree, albeit I'm not an intellectual like that. I did take an elective at CCM which was strictly from 12-tone rows, and later I read Forte The Atonal Music of Anton Webern and the essay Schoenberg As Webern, the former kind of extensively, etc to the point my understanding is... pretty good, I can improvise what seems like serial dodecaphony in real time. But I don't do abstract thinking at all today, I'm going with intuition.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:03 am

mgw38 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:59 am

For example, I do like how Orb Composer throws stuff at me that I would not even have remotely thought of.
Totally valid of course, and I describe in one of these threads using error in Cubase trying to transcribe MIDI from complex cloudy polyphonic audio, I wouldn't have thought of that at the time at all. But there is resemblance to what I fed it.
Chords, meh. Harmony suits, starts with melody, melody rules ok.

I started doing the Satie to get away from a certain sound world. I'm not throwing money at it like it's a problem is all.
Last edited by jancivil on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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