Is music just an elaborate arpeggio?

[jancivil]

I like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwONeTA4o0

content, ideas, rather than a pose

[vurt]

nins pretty hate machine was a huge seller, pretty mainstream alt. at least over here as big/prominent as nirvana.
it was later he became more experimental/noise based.
pretty hate machine was electro pop with a hint of darkness.
a great album, just not as underground as it could have been.

[IncarnateX]

Reject one assertion and it will be defended with another. Statements without arguments. To even get close to anything authoritative you would have to be able to differ and bet your money on the latter. Ain’t gonna happen here.

[IncarnateX]

This thread is kind of going around in circles. :

...as beautifully as your argumentum ad rectum.

argumentum ad culum

Argumentum ad utterly bullshit

[jancivil]

I can't expect everybody to have an education but I can't stand the posturing and pretense, it's just opinion and bullshit.

Saying 'defines modernity' like that is just a joke. I haven't lost my sense of humor about the thing at all, it literally made me laugh pretty good. But Jebus, give us a break with that.

When those grungey 'alternative' styles hit, I was a grown person making my own scene. You wouldn't be able to handle how far we went.

I'm not impressed by extramusical concerns.
I like Reznor's production of I'm Afraid of Americans but a lot of it strikes me just as noisy and aggro. I don't mind it.
I just thought it typical to care about what's considered edgier than thou and those are the examples, it's quite like the "modernity is defined by" some absolutely unoriginal pop artists. Those people only recycle what's been proven, they can never take a chance not to. This is not placing a limit as to meaning of what modern anything is. Musically it's not fresh, ok?
(yeah, I checked it out)

[IncarnateX]

im not sure it was subject matter as oppose to the aggressive manner with which sides where being argued.
it did get a bit heated for something which essentially, isn't important

Was not anywhere heated compared to a standard emulation thread

[vurt]

im not sure it was subject matter as oppose to the aggressive manner with which sides where being argued.
it did get a bit heated for something which essentially, isn't important

Was not anywhere heated compared to a standard emulation thread

yeah, but that matters!

[Stamped Records]

I have to say, as a person who uses electronic means to create music, I am a little in agreement with jancivil. I've always been the kind of person who wants to work with other people, learn with and from other people, but electronic music puts me in a position where, what am I good for anyway, when a next button does that. It's divided musicians and music itself has become modular, joined together out of bits because, just because, all in the name of 'if it sounds good, it is good'. But here's the thing, everything sounds good because there are people who's job it is to make it sound good, and that next button, well super duper you, stand up and take a bow buddy, get ready for the encore, what's that gonna be, two next buttons?

Anyway, back on track. I was searching for a beautiful chord progression, out of curiousity, because I'm still piecing this all together. I came across something that was a I,VI7, IV, I, and my, it is beautiful indeed. So infinitely sweet. Anyway, when I took away my left hand and just played the melody, I feel that the harmony is suggested by the melody, or the melody by the harmony, I'm not sure. But, once I found those notes for a melody I can't unhear it. I can hear it without the chords, but it seems to me that the chords are always there, no?

In monophonic music, there is still a tonic, I assume. Are the other notes given any name or order?

I suspect Radiohead has made a career out of this particular chord progression. I'm a little disappointed to find that it was all so simple to be honest. I'm also amazed at how beautiful and deep it sounds while being totally major. I don't even have to play the 7th of the VI chord for the thing to work. I notice however, that there are some interesting intervals as a factor of the VI being a borrowed chord. There is a major interval with two minor seconds contained within it, something I haven't come across before, and that's where it gets it's sincerity from, all while falling perfectly in line with the circle of 5ths, allbeit, with an imperfect cadence.

[telecode]

the "real alternative" scene (where I was located anyways.)

quelle surprise you think you were so ahead of the curve as to a popular sort of rock subgenre. Your examples are so pedestrian, with the possible exception of NIN which I only know of thru David Lynch.
(hint: I don't think a whole lot about what the cool kids do and never did really)

You have a lot of attitude, though, so it all kind of falls into place.

Snark is the new critical thinking for the modern person, although how modern can you be if you're not a teenager.
Vapid af.

Not at all. i simply stated a fact. By the time Nirvana "fever" reached where I was, they were already the "mainstream" and those that didn't relate to the mainstream looked for other artists that fell within the alternative genre. The discussion isn't about what and who is "cool". Its about how peole forgot that the grunge genre actually was a very mainstream genre of music for people that were young and around at the time.

btw.. Nick Cave in the 90s was anything but "ahead of the curve". He's an artist that was already around for a very long time .. since the late 70s and early 80s. Google the band "The Birthday Party". Oh, I forgot, I guess no one at Berklee school of music listens to Birthday Party -- I mean, got forbid they get exposed to music that appeals to a subculture which doesn't actually care about how many scales someone can play.

[IncarnateX]

Not at all. i simply stated a fact.

You would not know what a fact is if you were pissing on it. Sorry to say, but technically you are just making overgeneralizations from vague anecdotes at best, whether it is about your son’s loops or what you think was modern where you were at a given point in time. It is but personal analogies, narrations and fabulations. As far from facts as can be. And your examples are not proof of your assertions but part of them, fyi.

[Stamped Records]

I'm going on a little rant again here, but that old copout mantra "if it sounds good, it is good" has always got stuck in my teeth. Well hang on a minute, call me old fashioned, but as an artist I demand that you be responsible for whatever it is about it that sounds good. The trouble with electronic music is that "what sounds good" can be the sound itself, programmed by a professional for some nitwit to think he's a natural banging away on the white keys or mashing the keyboard through a 'scale filter', the very mention of the thing gives me shivers. I feel like I have more in common with 'real' musicians than I do with electronic musicians, and this disassociative attitude that electronic musicians often have towards traditional music, for lack of a better term, has been the cause of a lot of inner turmoil for me as I try to get to grips with how it all works. I find myself giving more attention to their lack of attention because it's so frustrating that we can't combine our attentions and in the process, do better and achieve more. Nope, instead we've got a million little one man production armies who haven't the feintest idea what is going on in their own music.

In a nutshell, yes, dude, it sounds brilliant, but where's your sound designer and your drum programmer so that I can pay credit to the right person, but then, they are blissfully unaware of what is being done with their creation so is this really just a black hole where nobody deserves credit. Maybe it's a black hole that a certain type of music should just be thrown into so that it can be defined as something else, because a lot of the time, it doesn't pass my bar for what music is supposed to be. Certainly not just one long string of irresponsible accidents that culminate in a crescendo while you, the writer, were picking your nose between loop cycles. Man, that's the longest, non-repetitive and intelligible rant I've ever gone on on this matter, and it feels good.

Disclaimer: not all electronic music is like this.

[jancivil]

There are absolutely songs which are chords driven; Radiohead Creep is one. Anything Ice Cream changes, I vi IV (or ii6) V I; Somewhere Over the Rainbow... Classical music, the whole architecture of eg. Sonata Form is married for life to harmony.


I don't find it personally as interesting as particular examples I gave here, let alone in the heavier music.
Modal music like Indian Classical is all about relation with the 'tonic'.
You can double lines and plane them and ignore the whole thing of chords.

There are chord sort of things in the Maitre track but things that cannot be boxed.


This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmt4P1BflIc

is all kinds of things but the modality ties it all into a whole.

This I think is modern and open-minded in attitude, take cues from all over the world and blend it with the love.

[jancivil]

Not at all. i simply stated a fact.

You are without exaggeration as full of shit as anyone I ever encountered. You have done nothing but bullshit and commit fallacy after fallacy, it's as though you cannot reason at_all.

[Stamped Records]

There are absolutely songs which are chords driven; Radiohead Creep is one. Anything Ice Cream changes, I vi IV (or ii6) V I; Somewhere Over the Rainbow... Classical music, the whole architecture of eg. Sonata Form is married for life to harmony.


I don't find it personally as interesting as particular examples I gave here, let alone in the heavier music.
Modal music like Indian Classical is all about relation with the 'tonic'.
You can double lines and plane them and ignore the whole thing of chords.

There are chord sort of things in the Maitre track but things that cannot be boxed.


This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmt4P1BflIc

is all kinds of things but the modality ties it all into a whole.

This I think is modern and open-minded in attitude, take cues from all over the world and blend it with the love.

I really enjoyed that music. So, am I to gather that modes are melodic devices more than harmonic? Would it be fair to say, that had I a good ear for music, I could just choose any note to be my tonic, and fart around til my heart is content?

[telecode]

Not at all. i simply stated a fact.

You are without exaggeration as full of shit as anyone I ever encountered. You have done nothing but bullshit and commit fallacy after fallacy, it's as though you cannot reason at_all.

sorry. you lost me. i dont get the fallacy comment. is this directed at my claim that grunge and nirvana were mainstream music back in the 90s? they appeared on the cover of rolling stone magazine with the likes of maddona, neil young and the stones promoting the reunion of jagger and richards and their steel wheels tour in the 90s. i dont know how much more obvious an indicator of mainstream that could get. but whatever. if it was really "out there" alternative music to you. great.

sorry to break it to you, but you accusing me of posturing and snobby is pretty funny coming from a guy who keeps posting berkley school of music clips. i dont know how to word it better other than, thats some pretty boring musicians and music in those clips. it may be gold to you , but its really dull and uninteresting and lame sounding to me. there is absolutely no attempt at originality, uniqueness or even a feeble attempt to break some sort of new ground musically or sonically. holy crap man. the chillstep drum & bass 18 year old fl studio artists make more interesting music than the people in those clips. at least they are experimenting with beats and trying out new things with daws and effects and stand a good chance of creating something that might sonically creep it's way into much larger reaching pop songs one day.

and you made the amazing mind blowing discovery of NIN in 2017 through their collaboration with David Lynch? are you fuggin kidding me?! under which rock do you live under exactly? cause whatever you are doing to keep yourself on top of music trends is not working. it doesn't work now. and it hasn't been working for at least 30 years from what i can tell by your posts. NIN were contemporaries of Ministry and Skinny Puppy in the industrial music scene in north america, and I can tell you for a fact, they were a very popular touring act and their music was played in a lot of clubs way back in the early 90s. they have been around for a long fuggin time.