Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
54446 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:23 am

pro tom knows a secret 148th way, which comes up with amazing melodies 100% of the time :o

schmerzschlag
KVRist
38 posts since 11 Oct, 2017

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:34 am

Now I want Pro Tom to be a plugin. All benefits. No hassle.

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ProfessionalTom
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535 posts since 10 Oct, 2019

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:50 am

There is actually some work going on to put my mind in the computer program but no computing power nowadays can handle this storm of ideas.

My secret programming team hopes it will be possible when quantum computing is commonly accessible, but I can't say for sure.

Stay tuned.
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KVRAF
2576 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:02 am

quite good track breakdown page https://www.edmprod.com/tb/ do u know other?
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harvon
KVRer
28 posts since 1 Oct, 2019

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm

There is a free notation program that knows some music theory. The program finds harmonisation and counterpoint errors that the user may have written in his/her composition. It can even suggest solutions to errors.

The program does not read midi or audio files, instead you have to write or play/sing your melody into it... :o I'm gonna try the software nevertheless.

http://www.jniz.org/index.php/en/

beatflux
KVRist
38 posts since 28 Jan, 2009

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:44 pm

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:13 pm
beatflux wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:42 am
AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:59 pm
The best way to learn how to write strong melodies is to start by omitting the pitch entirely and just focusing on the rhythm.

Super Mario, Star Wars, etc. are all identifiable just by their rhythm.
Great Observation.
Thanks, but I can't take credit for the observation as it has been well-known and taught for hundreds of years.

To examine the concept further, most strong melodies also follow a consistent, repeated rhythmic pattern, with phrases usually being in multiples of 8; periodic and sentence structures being most common.

Such as in Pirates of The Caribbean

Image
Do you realize how many people in music education with masters/PhD's don't seem to be aware of this? It's all chordal theory and makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

beatflux
KVRist
38 posts since 28 Jan, 2009

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:44 pm

jancivil wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:39 am


My first objection to the assertion is that it unnecessarily segregates rhythm from pitch: in the more practical sense, one could obtain a total understanding of the rhythm of the motif of that movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, ignoring pitch as you recommend, and then die not having the real sense of that melody worth a damn. The motif is memorable for the combination of rhythm and its intervals. You would go around saying dee dee tee DAH with no tones because you're tone deaf, isn't it.
Then, the integration of pitches and rhythm, ie., the weight of tones (ie., their pitch, low to high, the energy of this; the faster treatments of the motif don't
happen in the bass register for instance) and intervals in time is, according to your advice, deliberately set aside as though for later. I see you value your own opinion that highly, but I'm not buying. I don't think this is good, to be honest.
The main unifying factor in Beet's 5th is the underlying rhythmic motif.

The first variation of the initial motif are pitch changes, and more importantly the last note gets held for much longer giving the note more emotional tension plus adding to anticipation to the next note.

If the first four notes of the 5th were preserved, but rhythm was radically altered you can form the song into a totally different genre.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19166 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:59 am

So?
The argument I addressed was focusing on rhythm in complete isolation to pitch is the single "best" approach to learning melody. And I was really f**king clear about it.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5803 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:01 am

beatflux wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:44 pm
If the first four notes of the 5th were preserved, but rhythm was radically altered you can form the song into a totally different genre.
The first movement of Beethoven’s 5th Symphony is not a song.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19166 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:04 am

beatflux wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:44 pm
(Such as in Pirates of The Caribbean)

Do you realize how many people in music education with masters/PhD's don't seem to be aware of this? It's all chordal theory and makes me want to bang my head against the wall.
So it's your belief that somehow people who write for an advanced degree cannot grasp the felicities of the rhythm of this tune?

One supposes you're just so WOKE. :lol:

Weird hill to choose to die on.
Last edited by jancivil on Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19166 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:10 am

beatflux wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:44 pm
jancivil wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:39 am
My first objection to the assertion is that it unnecessarily segregates rhythm from pitch: in the more practical sense, one could obtain a total understanding of the rhythm of the motif of that movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, ignoring pitch as you recommend, and then die not having the real sense of that melody worth a damn. The motif is memorable for the combination of rhythm and its intervals. You would go around saying dee dee tee DAH with no tones because you're tone deaf, isn't it.
Then, the integration of pitches and rhythm, ie., the weight of tones (ie., their pitch, low to high, the energy of this; the faster treatments of the motif don't
happen in the bass register for instance) and intervals in time is, according to your advice, deliberately set aside as though for later. I see you value your own opinion that highly, but I'm not buying. I don't think this is good, to be honest.
The main unifying factor in Beet's 5th is the underlying rhythmic motif.
No shit? You really need to get a sense of the room you're playing. And then maybe how to be responsive to a point, particularly when it's quoted and we can all see it.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5036 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:59 am

beatflux wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:44 pm
Do you realize how many people in music education with masters/PhD's don't seem to be aware of this? It's all chordal theory and makes me want to bang my head against the wall.
It's kinda impressive how you go from this to, just a matter of hours later:
The main unifying factor in Beet's 5th is the underlying rhythmic motif.
Just about every course on composition talks about the motif or motive and the role of rhythm. So, I think we're going to need some evidence of how masters/PhDs aren't aware of that. Much of the composition work they will have done will have been on development - ie transforming the core motif into variations of length and pitch - in order to realise a piece.

I can only think you've managed to conflate a lack of things like swing in classical composition technique into rhythm not being part of the education. Or have simply seen some books on harmony and Fux-style counterpoint and thought that was the sum total of formal music education.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19166 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:16 am

I think this individual may have been saying academia is all harmony all the time.
It is quite unclear, however what 'this' and 'it' refer to in these sentences, to me anyway.

To be fair, in my specific case this was true, except I chose to avoid species counterpoint and very much avoid a composition course.
I asked to do more and I got to write about something, there was no class, just write a paper on something substantial, my choice and hand it in. They called it Form and Analysis. It's how I imagine an advanced degree goes, 'you're on your own now'.
But certainly composition courses would tend to get into motivic development.

By the time I got to conservatory I had a good melodic capacity, it's hard for me to feature it being taught as a "how to" sort of deal.

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cturner
KVRian
596 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:06 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:59 am
Just about every course on composition talks about the motif or motive and the role of rhythm. So, I think we're going to need some evidence of how masters/PhDs aren't aware of that.
Just coming in to the end of this thread, and haven’t read from the beginning, which seems pretty painful.

Anyone doing an analysis of Beethoven would likely do so WRT the theories of rhythm that were contemporary to his work. So: Kirnberger, Mattheson, Koch, Riemann and others. Crudely, the overriding rhythmic interest at the time was how music was a “language” with form akin to speech.

Generally, scholarship takes into account theories that are applicable to the music under consideration, so again, Schenker’s theories are more revealing of Beethoven’s compositions than George Russell’s Chord-Scale Theories. Which is not to say Chord-Scale is useless, it just theorizes a different type of music.
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DJ Warmonger
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3443 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Tips For Practicing Writing Melodies

Post Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:19 am

The best way to learn how to write strong melodies is to start by omitting the pitch entirely and just focusing on the rhythm.

Super Mario, Star Wars, etc. are all identifiable just by their rhythm.
That's a brilliant tip! :o Now that I realized it...

Also, that's probably why I struggled with writing melodies in the past - I started with chord progression, then formed simple full-bar chords or arpeggios, which just doesn't make a hook at all.
On the contrary, one of my strongest motiffs - "Hubris" - was made just in 5 minutes. I first laid down the rhythm I had in mind, then adjusted it for some pretty much random notes that don't even form any chord.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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