Musikmesse 2012: Propellerhead to share "exciting news"

[xh3rv]

ACE is mostly unaware of any control rate like in CV-sockets. It has to be all audio rate

Well, the MIDI stuff is all limited rate though, although converted? Just saying there's something CV-like in place, although it sounds like you've got ideas about audio-rate stuff which sound pretty impressive.

[justin3am]

ACE is mostly unaware of any control rate like in CV-sockets. It has to be all audio rate

From what I understood they wouldn't mind us abusing audio cords for control signals. I'm just not sure if we can place them on the front side.

And of course we need to know if it's an "in-ACE-cable" or a "external cable". That's because there's a difference in hvaing an audio stream or an in-voice connection between two modules. Audio streams are mono, in voice streams are polyphonic and handled internally.

Reason is gonna need patchbays and snakes to run signals from the front of the UI to the back. I'm sure they'll *love* that.

Seriously though, how do you think they would responds if you tried to transmit binary data as audio through the patch cables in order to get polyphonic CV between two modules. It seems like there is already precedence for using audio I/O for control signals, but do you think they would be okay with transmitting raw data (that would end up just sounding like noise if you patch it out to a mixer channel)?

[davidka]

I just seriously hope that those extensions will bring some well-known freebies into the game, aswell.

[decalogue]

Yes, I'm certainly excited about this news.

I will probably buy every single RE plugin available on the market, no matter if I already have purchased their VST versions before or not. I would certainly buy all U-he stuff available for the Reason rack without hesitation. I would pay full VSTi price for a Diva version in Reason alone - that synth would be awesome for sound design, building new cool layered combinator patches and routing stuff like crazy. The same goes for the Valhalla plugins, and many others - instant buy.

What I especially like about the RE store concept is that the copy protection for small developers has already been taken care of. I really can't see any disadvantages with the RE platform for 3rd party developers at all, quite the contrary. Seems like a dream platform, since Propellerhad takes care of the distribution and protection stuff for a mere 30% - just awesome.

It remains to be seen, however, if the majority of Reason users will reach for their wallets to such extent that many more developers are jumping aboard this platform. Somehow I get this feeling that the average Reason user is more of a a "leftist" type of mentality who expects everything to be a free lunch. Introducing "capitalist" diversity into their beloved rack of equality will probably stir up some emotions. I mean, just look at all the bitching that went on before Props finally decided to launch the "Pay what you want" campaign half a year ago.

[braj]

To Urs and all the developers: please push for an upgraded Rewire that will simplify patching into hosts to be as seamless as VSTs.

Anyhow, listening to you guys go I can only say you all are some major geeks I love it! Can't wait to see what you all do with it all.

[valhallasound]

What I especially like about the RE store concept is that the copy protection for small developers has already been taken care of. I really can't see any disadvantages with the RE platform for 3rd party developers at all, quite the contrary. Seems like a dream platform, since Propellerhad takes care of the distribution and protection stuff for a mere 30% - just awesome.

The problem is that every existing commercial plugin developer already has distribution and copy protection taken care of, for far less than 30%. That's why they are commercial software developers, as opposed to freeware developers or talented 3rd party contractors - they've figured out how to monetize things for themselves.

The Propellerheads app store is very far from a dream platform, IMO. It sounds like a lot of extra work, to learn a new platform that is only used in one DAW. I do this already (in Pro Tools), and even there I get to keep 100% of the proceeds, minus the PayPal fees. Plus, the Pro Tools plugins can use my existing GUI code, with only minor tweak, while it looks like Reason will require designing new GUI code. And the Pro Tools install base is MASSIVE.

Quite frankly, this whole App Store thing grosses me out. It grosses me out with Apple, but they are the $500 billion gorilla, so they aren't about to be stopped. But Reason is nowhere near as big a player. Obviously, it is perfectly within Propellerheads' rights to develop their own proprietary plugin format, and charge a premium to be able to develop for that format. It is also within the rights of plugin developers to refuse to play along. Personally, I think that this proprietary plugin/app store trend would be bad for the industry as a whole, and I don't feel like supporting it, or doing anything that would encourage such behavior.

Just my $0.02.

Sean Costello

[Crackbaby]

Apart from having an app-like store like Apple, Propellerheads isn't really very similar, is it?
Apple got this status quo going on when it comes to what digital tools to have etc. I despise status quo. It really bothers me to see people walking around like zombies without having the ability to question what's going on around them. The whole apple thing represents that stomach ache to me.
Propellerheads got a DAW that attracts people who like to work with modular rachs instead of the current standard on how a daw should be. How much difference is it between cubase, pro tools, sonar and logic? Reason is different. It's like energyXT but more playground.

I would like you to at least get the developer kit and see how much work it is RE without Übermod brings me to a bad, bad place

[jensa]

Somehow I get this feeling that the average Reason user is more of a a "leftist" type of mentality who expects everything to be a free lunch. Introducing "capitalist" diversity into their beloved rack of equality will probably stir up some emotions. I mean, just look at all the bitching that went on before Props finally decided to launch the "Pay what you want" campaign half a year ago.

Oh dear, what a silly presumption. Where did you get that from? Do you really think they launched the "Pay what you want" campaign without thinking it was a smarter move to do it and get more people to move to the new version instead? Maybe they realized they did miscalculate initially and wanted to use it as a way to broaden their user base in the long run, and get people to be able to buy into the RE-plugs = even more money. Isn't that still in line with capitalism, or is that some "leftist" shit to your eyes? Geez.

[karacha]

It sounds like a lot of extra work, to learn a new platform... it looks like Reason will require designing new GUI code.

With all due respect, Sean, it really isn't a lot of work. Ask u-he, Sonic Charge or softube. As for the GUI... yes, it would have to be different, but it's not like your GUIs are incredibly complicated anyway. They would have to be resized to fit the rack, or possibly be expanded, like Thor or Kong devices, or RV-7000 reverb, for example.

Let's look at this picture:



It took some of these developers up to one day (!) to port their code to Rack Extensions. Urs took maybe a week to port the code and finish the GUI.

My thinking is: this opens up a new market for you (something that wasn't available before) -- a market that really needs a new reverb, badly. Your reverb(s) would sell, and if you sell 1000 copies total, you're looking at the sum of $35,000, minimum, depending on your pricing. I don't know... but if you jump on this bandwagon, I'll be your customer. Simple as that.

Why not request the SDK from Propellerheads and take a look? That's all I - and many other Reason users - are asking. If you don't like it, that's OK. It is what it is. But at least look at it, because it opens up some really nice possibilities.

[nix808]

ooh-
That softube trident looks sweet in there

[krucial]

It sounds like a lot of extra work, to learn a new platform... it looks like Reason will require designing new GUI code.

With all due respect, Sean, it really isn't a lot of work. Ask u-he, Sonic Charge or softube. As for the GUI... yes, it would have to be different, but it's not like your GUIs are incredibly complicated anyway. They would have to be resized to fit the rack, or possibly be expanded, like Thor or Kong devices, or RV-7000 reverb, for example.

Let's look at this picture:



It took these developers up to one day (!) to port their code to Rack Extensions.

My thinking is: this opens up a new market for you (something that wasn't available before) -- a market that really needs a new reverb, badly. Your reverb(s) would sell, and if you sell 1000 copies total, you're looking at the sum of $35,000, minimum, depending on your pricing. I don't know... but if you jump on this bandwagon, I'll be your customer. Simple as that.

Why not request the SDK from Propellerheads and take a look? That's all I - and many other Reason users - are asking. If you don't like it, that's OK. It is what it is. But at least look at it, because it opens up some really nice possibilities.

I have been browsing these forums for the longest time but I had to sign up finally.

Please stop begging this person to do something he has no interested in. His whole tone seen here and on twitter is downright rude if you ask me. There are many Reason users in the Props forum who speak highly of his Reverb. His attitude comes off like to hell with Propellerheads and Reason users. I don't care who he is, what hes done or how great people thinks his plugins are. at being suspicious of people emailing you about plugins for Reason. Dude these are potential customers. Who likes your stuff. Yes many people use Reason even if artist you listen don't like you claim. SMH.

With his attitude I hope he does not adopt the RE format. Leave your plugins out of the Re format.

[karacha]

I wasn't really begging... I simply expressed my opinion and asked him to look at it from a different angle. That's all. Isn't that what an open forum is about? If he doesn't like it, someone else will develop a new reverb and that's it.

Just like you are expressing your opinion here. But there's no reason to be rude.

[krucial]

I wasn't really begging... I simply expressed my opinion and asked him to look at it from a different angle. That's all. Isn't that what an open forum is about? If he doesn't like it, someone else will develop a new reverb and that's it.

Just like you are expressing your opinion here. But there's no reason to be rude.

Wasn't being rude to you. My apologies.

[FaX]

Developers as equally within their rights to not get an board as I would be not to purchase their Rack Extension devices if they chose to create them.
Personally I don't want a swag of VST clones ported to Rack Extensions.
Reason is a Modular CV/Gate based environment and I'd rather see dev's create something that expands and builds on what's there in useful and creative ways.
For example U-He could create an MSEG rack device that sends out CV/Gate to other devices that locks to tempo and is far more flexible than any envelope generator in Reason.
Sugar Bytes could create far more complex step sequencers than we have in Reason already.
I for one would like to see a decent polyrhythmic drum machine - even if it just came with CV/GATE outs to sequence Kong for example.
Another dev could produce Modular Synth Modules that we combine and patch in a Combinator for flexible modular synth patches.
Valhalla is not the only Reverb on the planet and we don't know what will be developed.
I just want to see tools that are unique to Reason along with a suite of better comps, eq's, assorted audio mangling tools and some really creative and inspired synthesis that isn't just another VA rehash.
Others mileage may vary and I think dev's need to know what we would like see if hey decide to get on board with Rack Extension development.
It is not my place to demand it and it's not my place to expect exact VST replica's within the Reason rack either.

[liquidsound]

It sounds like a lot of extra work, to learn a new platform... it looks like Reason will require designing new GUI code.

With all due respect, Sean, it really isn't a lot of work. Ask u-he, Sonic Charge or softube. As for the GUI... yes, it would have to be different, but it's not like your GUIs are incredibly complicated anyway. They would have to be resized to fit the rack, or possibly be expanded, like Thor or Kong devices, or RV-7000 reverb, for example.

Let's look at this picture:



It took these developers up to one day (!) to port their code to Rack Extensions.

My thinking is: this opens up a new market for you (something that wasn't available before) -- a market that really needs a new reverb, badly. Your reverb(s) would sell, and if you sell 1000 copies total, you're looking at the sum of $35,000, minimum, depending on your pricing. I don't know... but if you jump on this bandwagon, I'll be your customer. Simple as that.

Why not request the SDK from Propellerheads and take a look? That's all I - and many other Reason users - are asking. If you don't like it, that's OK. It is what it is. But at least look at it, because it opens up some really nice possibilities.

I have been browsing these forums for the longest time but I had to sign up finally.

Please stop begging this person to do something he has no interested in. His whole tone seen here and on twitter is downright rude if you ask me. There are many Reason users in the Props forum who speak highly of his Reverb. His attitude comes off like to hell with Propellerheads and Reason users. I don't care who he is, what hes done or how great people thinks his plugins are. LOL are being suspicious of people emailing you about plugins for Reason. Dude these are potential customers. Who likes your stuff. Yes many people use Reason even if artist you listen don't like you claim. SMH.

With his attitude I hope he does not adopt the RE format. Leave your plugins out of the Re format.

Did anyone forgot the PH attitude vs VST? Now, for some reason or another, VST could be the future lifeboat for them and it seems that some developer hasn't forgot the two-face attitude of PH and he has the right to feel not so "grateful" for such opportunity of a "possible" financial gain. It's all a matter of values vs needs. Each one has a personal compass.