Is Native Instruments FM8 the best for DX7 epiano sounds?

[hakey]

ever ask yourself why there's a "1" in the name of the patch?

Because it was the first, aka the original?

Anyway, I fail to see how this minor detail of interpretation relates to my argument that (despite its alleged limits in the FM department) Zebra can easily replicate the DX algorithm used for the "E Piano 1" and "Fulltines" patches.

[Arrested Developer]

..., but honestly I think the synthesizer itself sounds poor- pale and bloated. There's no "kernel" to the sound. I've been cruising the net a bit this evening listening to DX-7 examples. I had forgotten how bland it sounds, but it does have some body to the sound.

As you've written in the other post (answering mine), the DX7 is in fact not the right synth to trigger flashes of synesthesia (btw, i very much experience music in colors, that's sometimes really helpful...) , but the sound stands up in the mix and merges very well in combinations.
E. g. i liked the combination of sampled pianos and some rather thin and metallic DX7 sounds that had an increase of nonharmonic overtones at higher velocities. In fact, like Lotuzia mentioned, FM really is great in its possiblities of interacting with the velocity. When programming (or tweaking) fm-sounds, i like to modulate the tuning of (one or more) operators via velocity to get nonharmonic spectras, and in Zebra you can use this feature in some really nice ways.

[Aroused by JarJar]

..., but honestly I think the synthesizer itself sounds poor- pale and bloated. There's no "kernel" to the sound. I've been cruising the net a bit this evening listening to DX-7 examples. I had forgotten how bland it sounds, but it does have some body to the sound.

As you've written in the other post (answering mine), the DX7 is in fact not the right synth to trigger flashes of synesthesia (btw, i very much experience music in colors, that's sometimes really helpful...) , but the sound stands up in the mix and merges very well in combinations.
E. g. i liked the combination of sampled pianos and some rather thin and metallic DX7 sounds that had an increase of nonharmonic overtones at higher velocities. In fact, like Lotuzia mentioned, FM really is great in its possiblities of interacting with the velocity.

Yes, a DX-7, and the other Yamaha FM synths including the cheaper models, do stand up in mixes. This hasn't been my experience with anything from Native Instruments where the sound isn't over the top or heavily processed in some way, or everything else in the mix is processed "back".

This "darkened, but solid" characteristic is much more present in Zebra than in FM7. As I said before, I don't it's really about "technically authentic", but about "how it should be".

Frequency modulation in its many forms is my favorite and my specialty by the way, and the responsiveness of it is a big part of that. And really I don't think Yamaha had the final word to say in FM at all.

[hakey]

Synthmania on the "E Piano 1" patch:

"THE MOST FAMOUS PATCH OF THE '80s!!!!!!! Used by EVERYBODY, the fabled INT11 preset has become a standard sound (aka "FM piano" in all modern workstations, of all brands. It was manipulated in many ways, but the typical add-on was a wide chorus, to achieve that polished, professional sound. Mixed with a regular piano sound, it became the "L.A. piano", a standard for mid-80s ballads."

[Lotuzia]

ever ask yourself why there's a "1" in the name of the patch?

Because it was the first, aka the original?

Anyway, I fail to see how this minor detail of interpretation relates to my argument that (despite its alleged limits in the FM department) Zebra can easily replicate the DX algorithm used for the "E Piano 1" and "Fulltines" patches.

Its definitely useless discussing with you. .

Interesting also your example of DX beeing emulated by additive synthesis.

First for your information again, additive synthesis can in theory emulate any sound. ( I know, I save you around a century of google for that )

Edited

Like I said, discussing with you ( well discussing is barely the right word ) leads nowhere. I'm afraid I might not be able to answer any of your posts in the future

LtZ

[Lotuzia]

..., but honestly I think the synthesizer itself sounds poor- pale and bloated. There's no "kernel" to the sound. I've been cruising the net a bit this evening listening to DX-7 examples. I had forgotten how bland it sounds, but it does have some body to the sound.

As you've written in the other post (answering mine), the DX7 is in fact not the right synth to trigger flashes of synesthesia (btw, i very much experience music in colors, that's sometimes really helpful...) , but the sound stands up in the mix and merges very well in combinations.
E. g. i liked the combination of sampled pianos and some rather thin and metallic DX7 sounds that had an increase of nonharmonic overtones at higher velocities. In fact, like Lotuzia mentioned, FM really is great in its possiblities of interacting with the velocity.

Yes, a DX-7, and the other Yamaha FM synths including the cheaper models, do stand up in mixes. This hasn't been my experience with anything from Native Instruments where the sound isn't over the top or heavily processed in some way, or everything else in the mix is processed "back".

This "darkened, but solid" characteristic is much more present in Zebra than in FM7. As I said before, I don't it's really about "technically authentic", but about "how it should be".

Frequency modulation in its many forms is my favorite and my specialty by the way, and the responsiveness of it is a big part of that. And really I don't think Yamaha had the final word to say in FM at all.

Well I guess "how it should be" can be different for different people.

Dx series were OK for Stevie Wonder, and they are OK for me/

The FM7/8 is the closest I found to the Dx series. And they are ok for me.

There are other interesting FM soft synths : Sytrus, Rhino, Toxic btw. Each with their own possibilitites.

LtZ

[Arrested Developer]

Then in the example you link to, you'll see that you need 6 operators. Not 4 ..... Again 4 ops synths even cant do the example you mention

You forget that in Zebra you have 4 osc modules that you can use as carriers.
Therefore you can't equal 6 DX-operators with 6 FM-modules in Zebra.
You rather should see Zebra as an 8 operator FM-synth, where you have a max of 4 modulators. [edit: the FM-modules on the other hand can also be used as carriers]
The only DX7-algorithms that you can't imitate with Zebra are those 3 with only one carrier and five modulators.

[Lotuzia]

Then in the example you link to, you'll see that you need 6 operators. Not 4 ..... Again 4 ops synths even cant do the example you mention

You forget that in Zebra you have 4 osc modules that you can use as carriers.
Therefore you can't equal 6 DX-operators with 6 FM-modules in Zebra.
You rather should see Zebra as an 8 operator FM-synth, where you have a max of 4 carriers and 4 modulators.
The only DX7-algorithms that you can't imitate with Zebra are those 3 with only one carrier and five modulators.

Thanks for correcting me, i've edited my post accordingly.

Though in the linked example you still need 6 operators operating in // iirc, or "in row" if you prefer, not 2*4 . But let's not cut hair in twelve I've edited my post..

So, Well the 6 ops in parralel too, those used to make all the "organs" emulations for example. Btw in the FM8 the algorythm are free so you can modulate anything with anything, and have as many cross modulations and feedback as you need. Is it you that said that you lke FM8 for the sounds the Dx cant do ? Cant remenber, anyway its true, FM8 can do things the original DX cant. Nor other synths.


Also I forgot to mention in the very interesting FM synths : Rob Papen Blue. This one can do marvels too.

[Arrested Developer]

Though in the linked example you still need 6 operators operating in // iirc, or "in row" if you prefer, not 2*4 . But let's not cut hair in twelve I've edited my post..

So, Well the 6 ops in parralel too, those used to make all the "organs" emulations for example. Btw in the FM8 the algorythm are free so you can modulate anything with anything, and have as many cross modulations and feedback as you need. Is it you that said that you lke FM8 for the sounds the Dx cant do ? Cant remenber, anyway its true, FM8 can do things the original DX cant. Nor other synths.

Sorry, i forgot (and now edited) the fact that you can of course use the fm-modules in Zebra as carriers too.
(which in fact makes mostly sense where you need a nonharmonic or modulated tuning or non-standard keyfollow for a specific sound component; since the oscillators themselves allow additive synthesis)

Nevertheless, it was me who wrote to like the FM8 for sounds the DX can't do...
(in fact, i also like FM8 very much in combination which other synths, it's a really good "teamplayer")

[pdxindy]

And to get the "original DX feel", for me, Zebra is more intuitive and effective.
By saying that i have to add that getting the feel for me is not very much related to having the exact set of parameters, but rather to the question, how the sound actually sounds.
Often you get the "soul/charisma" of a specific sound on another synth even better, if you use a different kind of synthesis...

I like the range of DX tine type sounds from Zebra better than FM8... There is a bit of harmonic complexity that FM8 misses. I find it easier to get what I want with Zebra too... cause I can 'cheat' in all sorts of musically useful ways

Also, Bazille has its unique character for tines too. It has a satisfying bass coherency that FM8 cannot come close to. ACE and Bazille are the ones that caused me to stop using FM8 altogether cause it just sounds weak in comparison for the particular sounds I used it for.

[@midnight]

Hey guys the sound I want to emulate is E. Piano 1 from the DX7

Preset #11

[Aroused by JarJar]

Well I guess "how it should be" can be different for different people.

Exactly.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Hey guys the sound I want to emulate is E. Piano 1 from the DX7

Preset #11

Next time just say "you know, the one that sounds like a real estate agent grabbing your butt in a hotel bar", and we'll exactly which one you mean right away.

[hakey]

Then in the example you link to, you'll see that you need 6 operators. Not 4 ..... Again 4 ops synths even cant do the example you mention

You forget that in Zebra you have 4 osc modules that you can use as carriers.
Therefore you can't equal 6 DX-operators with 6 FM-modules in Zebra.

Any of Zebra's four Osc modules or the four FMO's can be used as modulators, but only the FMO's can be used as carriers.

In a separate thread in the u-he forum the conclusion was that Zebra can replicate all but two of the thirty-two DX7 algo's. In fact, with some clever programming (splitting and recombining the stereo paths), the total number of operators available in Zebra greatly exceeds the DX's six.

[hakey]

So, Well the 6 ops in parralel too, those used to make all the "organs" emulations for example.

Zebra can run eight oscillators in parallel.

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