When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

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Kraznet
KVRian
1016 posts since 11 Jun, 2004 from London

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:00 am

My brain is melting please help :o

Using my Technics WSA1 as the master keyboard I'm getting the following results when recording C3.

Samplitude C3 = C3 in midi editor

Studio One C3 = C3 in midi editor

Reaper C3 = C4 in midi editor

Sonar X3 C3 = C5 in midi editor

Fruity Loops C3 = C5 in midi editor

Renoise C3 = C5 in list

Which one is right?
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sjm
KVRAF
1729 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:46 am

None, the MIDI standard is only that note 60 is middle C.

I.e. the same note on your keyboard will be the same note in all DAWs. The only difference is that various manufacturers have different naming convention.

Just press the same key for the same note and don't worry about the octave label, it's purely visual.
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DarkStar
KVRAF
8567 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:59 am

As sjm said, middle C is MIDI note 60.

Some hardware and software manufacturers label this as C3, others use C4 and some C5.
  • If it is named C3, then MIDI note 0 is C-2.
  • If it is named C4, then MIDI note 0 is C-1 (I think that that is the traditional name).
  • If it is named C5, then MIDI note 0 is C0.
In some hosts, e.g. Reaper, you can change the numeric part of the name - look for "octave offset" in the Preferences. It's set to -1 here, giving me a name range of C-2 to G8. And MIDI note 60 is C3.
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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BertKoor
KVRAF
10734 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:01 am

sjm wrote:None, the MIDI standard is only that note 60 is middle C. [...] it's purely visual.
Correct.

Let's say note zero is in octave zero. Then note 12 = C1, note 24 = C2, note 36 = C3, note 48 = C4 and note 60 = C5.

As you found out some hosts / daws define this "middle" C as the middle of a 61-keys master keyboard, and then (without transposing) it would most likely be C3 instead of C5.
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Kraznet
KVRian
1016 posts since 11 Jun, 2004 from London

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:18 am

That makes sense. So it really is just a purely visual thing. I wonder why they don't all decide on a display standard? I know that Yamaha and Roland have different ideas of what C3 is.
In some hosts, e.g. Reaper, you can change the numeric part of the name - look for "octave offset" in the Preferences. It's set to -1 here, giving me a name range of C-2 to G8. And MIDI note 60 is C3.
It seems you can do this in Sonar and Logic Pro as well. Although Samplitude doesn't have the ability to set an "octave offset".
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lfm
KVRAF
4623 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:28 am

Hardware manuafacturors usually refer to keys and octaves in a visual manner from that particular keyboard. Seems so on my Yamaha and Hammond anyway - what is C5 etc. Manuals mention by this, keyboard split position name by this etc.

Then what is said - there is a setting in many daws where root midi key octave is - like C-2 etc as mentioned.

But also seen in instruments like Vsampler, that have their own setting you can use to match whatever you have loaded to external conditions. And it makes sense that a sampler can load so many different things that only map samples in certain octaves.

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Kraznet
KVRian
1016 posts since 11 Jun, 2004 from London

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:33 am

Reaper :

Image

Sonar X3:

Image

Can't find a way to do it in Studio One.
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memyselfandus
KVRAF
5127 posts since 29 Apr, 2006

Re: When is C3 not C3? When it's C4 or C5 - Midi piano roll help needed.

Post Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:28 am

Yeah there's no benefit to changing it visually.. why do they do it then? I think it's annoying.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientif ... h_notation

Label it what it is! Devs.. There is a difference between Notes..you know.. The user default should be zero to begin with. With the option of changing it if you'd like to.

Then there's no confusion if anyone decides to do a video using a piano roll with musical examples including pitch information..

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