KVR Audio

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:33 pm

Id also love to hear a bit more about both wavegenerator and wavemapper, the differences etc.
im in the market for a wavetable synth, but hard to decide.

however, I understand both wavegenerator and wavemapper both support voice per channel midi, so could be an excellent match for expressive controllers (like my Eigenharp), but I'm a bit confused about exactly what attributes can be assigned to each key axis.
is there any more info available?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:40 pm

The PPG Wavemapper 2 manual is available here (also added this to my post at the previous page):
http://wolfgangpalm.com/new-products/pp ... n-support/

The Sound Map (one of the main features) is explained starting at page 14.

At the previous page of this thread there is also a video where Wolfgang Palm explains the synth.

A collection of related videos is also found here:
http://wolfgangpalm.com/videos/ppg-videos/

Aural Chaos · Post by **Aural Chaos** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:02 pm

Haven't had time to read the manual, but it seems, unlike the iOS WaveMapper, that WM2 borrows much of the wavescanning ability of WaveGenerator- it's sort of like a combination of features of both the iOS apps.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:16 pm

Thanks for the info, didnt spot it on the website

@ingonator, Im a little confused about the VpC mode description... p13
"VPC - stands for Voice per Channel, and is quite special but very versatile. In this mode each voice may use a different midi channel, and reacts only on this channel after the trigger. This can be very interesting in DAWs where you could setup tracks with different channels and use the pitch wheel and CC1 and CC2 controllers to individually form the sounds. There are also some hardware controllers supporting this."

a couple of questions:
- in this mode, do CX and CY correspond to CC1 and CC2 respectively? (and PB can be sent in per channel)
- CV in VPC mode is this still velocity?
- in VPC mode, what happens to aftertouch, and should I send it as channel pressure (per channel) or poly pressure.
- other CCs defined in the ccl.txt (p50) are these also per channel?
- p50 implies these CC mappings are save with the program/presets, so is this file just used as a initial mapping, i.e. you can have different ones for different presets? (if so when you edit this file for these, does it contain the correct mapping?)

a couple of things that surprise me is that, if my understanding is correct.
- CC1/2 have been hijacked for CX/CY, id have preferred different CCs as the Eigenharp also has ribbon2 and a breath controller, which id have like to been targeted to CC1/2, and been available in the UI as breath and ribbon.
- most of the expressive controllers have 3 axis (continuum, eigenharp, soundplane, linnstrument), but it appears we have CX/CY + pitch bend, i.e. the 3rd axis is fixed to pitch bend
are these assumptions correct?

thanks for your help
Mark

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:47 pm

@Mark:
I am sorry but so far i don't know really much about the VpC mode. I am also not using advanced controllers like e.g. eigenharp, breath controller or poly pressure.

Usually (e.g. in "Poly" mode) as a mod source "CX" seems to correspond to aftertouch/pressure (and/or breath controller) while "CY" corresponds to the Modwheel (and CV = velocity control).
In VpC mode CX seems to correspond to the Modwheel. CV still seems to correspond to velocity. Not sure what happens to aftertouch there.

UPDATE:
Just asked Wolfgang for more informations.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:45 am

I bought the bundle

ok, so i can confirm in VpC mode CX=cc1 and CY=cc2, anc CV remains as velocity.
i can map these fine with my eigenharp...
but i dont think i can assign the 3rd axis, that has to be fixed at pitchbend

Though id really love to see a few more controller modulation sources, eg breath and modwheel in addition to cv,cx,cy.

i will experiment with the cc asignment, but they are not the same, as are directly assigned to a synth function (like automation).
the modulation sources are nicer as they are assigned in UI and are per patch.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:30 pm

thetechnobear wrote:I bought the bundle
ok, so i can confirm in VpC mode CX=cc1 and CY=cc2, anc CV remains as velocity.
i can map these fine with my eigenharp...
but i dont think i can assign the 3rd axis, that has to be fixed at pitchbend

Though id really love to see a few more controller modulation sources, eg breath and modwheel in addition to cv,cx,cy.

i will experiment with the cc asignment, but they are not the same, as are directly assigned to a synth function (like automation).
the modulation sources are nicer as they are assigned in UI and are per patch.

I don't know if this is relevant to you, but if you need to do simple or sophisticated remapping of MIDI between controller and destination, Bome's MIDI Translator is probably your best option. It even creates it's own MIDI ports so you can wire it system-wide easily. It's cross platform and a free demo is available. No affiliation, just a fan.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:06 pm

Thanks @breeze, EigenD (eigenharp software) has very flexible mapping, so its not an issue,
this was more about what WaveMapper and WaveGenerator supports for per channel expression,
Ive now confirmed, it supports CX (cc1) /CY(cc2) and pitchbend, so whilst the Eigenharp could send more, its not got anywhere to map it to within the synths.

Not that this, is a big issue, pitchbend is usually the 3rd axis, and having pressure/yaw expression gives plenty of scope for expression, also I can map the strip and breath controllers via the CC mapping file, so thats ok. (only 'issue' is it is not saved per patch)

so now the bigger fun, is working out how to use these synths... they are deep, very deep

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:30 pm

Does anyone know what ppg's license transfer policy is? Is it allowed? Is there a charge? Does it become nfr? My demo ran out for wavegenerator so I cant demo it anymore. Thanks.

-Sam

arakula · Post by **arakula** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:17 pm

No license transfer, sorry. Look here for further details.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:33 pm

thetechnobear wrote:Thanks @breeze, EigenD (eigenharp software) has very flexible mapping, so its not an issue,
this was more about what WaveMapper and WaveGenerator supports for per channel expression...

Gotcha. I'm interested in this angle too because I'm exploring control combinations from the iPad (via Lemur and others). It certainly would be nice to see more CC reassignments in multi-mono and per patch saving. FR time.

. But adding more control parameters per voice may be complicated depending on the internal architecture of the synth.

I also use a controller with Poly AT which I can remap and send on different channels per note. Mind you I haven't used this multi-channel mode and I'm sure the rest of the Voice MIDI other than Note data gets replicated on each channel.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:41 pm

arakula wrote:No license transfer, sorry. Look here for further details.

Did you get a reply from wolfgangpalm.com? There doesn't seem to be anything on that page or in the PDF about this.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:46 pm

Breeze wrote:
arakula wrote:No license transfer, sorry. Look here for further details.
Did you get a reply from wolfgangpalm.com? There doesn't seem to be anything on that page or in the PDF about this.

arakula is the KVR name of Hermann Seib, maybe that helps...

He is one of the persons directly involved with the synth (and known as a "PPG Wave guru"...

).

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:56 pm

There is a new video from one of the factory sound designers:

There also seems to be one of the first reviews:

arakula · Post by **arakula** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:22 pm

Breeze wrote:
arakula wrote:No license transfer, sorry. Look here for further details.
Did you get a reply from wolfgangpalm.com? There doesn't seem to be anything on that page or in the PDF about this.

I got this directly from Wolfgang Palm, so you can take it as an authorized information.

Wolfgang Palm WaveMapper 2 is out for PC and MAC