2CAudio Kaleidoscope | It's A Trip | Latest Update 1.1

[Sampleconstruct]

2048 is the sample length,not rate.

I'm just going by what the Mac says when I rightclick and select 'Get info' - it says 'sample rate: 2048'

Oh, I might be wrong then.

[aMUSEd]

2048 is the sample length,not rate.

I'm just going by what the Mac says when I rightclick and select 'Get info' - it says 'sample rate: 2048'

Oh, I might be wrong then.

Dunno, I thought originally it was the length too. Maybe Apple is wrong?

[Andrew Souter]

I've been looking into this, it is possible to upconvert a file to 64 bit format easily enough, but are you implying the quality would not be as good? tbh I'm a little confused about that though because if both are non lossy formats then wouldn't the quality be the same?

It would be very, very similar. But not exactly the same. Can anyone hear the difference (between 32bit and 64bit)? Almost certainly not in the content of using them exclusively as tuning maps under most normal circumstances. In extreme cases, maybe. But KS IS about doing extreme things.

Anyway, in this usage context, the numerical precision (bit depth) of the waveform effects only the tuning of the resonator. So, any small error would result only in a tiny deviation of exact tuning of the resonator compared to what you expected it to be, assuming you had some scientific way to know exactly what you wanted it to be. Using the random knob at anything over 0% will also very quickly invalidate the argument for needing 64-bit waveforms only for tuning.

This is the science answer. If it leads to more business questions, like "ok so why don't you just use/allow 32bit" the answer is: see above. I've said everything to say now on the topic.

What I can't seem to do is find a way to match the sample rate which my Mac is telling me should be 2,048. Every audio editor I have seems only to allow conversion between several fixed sample rates such as 16000 and 22050 - I can't seem to get them to convert to arbitrary numbers.

Sample rate does NOT matter in this content. Don't convert them. Just keep them at whatever SR they say already...

[Sampleconstruct]

So I was right.

[arachnaut]

So the 64bit WAV limitation is just an artificial one ? To sell his 64bit WAV packs, presumably ?

The tunings need floating point accuracy, I guess the choice was 32 or 64 bit floating point, so why not shoot for the best.

Most things are moving towards 64-bit everything these days. I guess it is just forward thinking to jump in early.

I use Sonar in 64-bit audio mode even though I can't hear the difference.

When you do a lot of calculations on data, the extra accuracy helps in the end.

[aMUSEd]

I've been looking into this, it is possible to upconvert a file to 64 bit format easily enough, but are you implying the quality would not be as good? tbh I'm a little confused about that though because if both are non lossy formats then wouldn't the quality be the same?

It would be very, very similar. But not exactly the same. Can anyone hear the difference (between 32bit and 64bit)? Almost certainly not in the content of using them exclusively as tuning maps under most normal circumstances. In extreme cases, maybe. But KS IS about doing extreme things.

Anyway, in this usage context, the numerical precision (bit depth) of the waveform effects only the tuning of the resonator. So, any small error would result only in a tiny deviation of exact tuning of the resonator compared to what you expected it to be, assuming you had some scientific way to know exactly what you wanted it to be.

Thanks, yeah I guess that's the thing, I have no way of predicting what a particular sample would sound like anyway used as a tuning until I try it (apart possibly from being able to make some broad inferences from similar sorts of sounds), so for my purposes it probably doesn't matter. My approach is going to be very much trial and error largely and it's the randomness that I want anyway.

[rustman]

Also, are the demo files a subset of the A01 KS option or will 01 KS add 14,000+ files to what is in the demo?

I'm one of the ones who actually bought it and like it a lot, regardless of the answer to this question. Installed without a hitch. Runs fine with no unforseen issues. Makes nice, unexpected sounds. I got my moneys worth. I don't want to pile on at all, but if I was a well-known KVR guy, would this eventually get answered? I remember every ignored post and email that I've experienced over the years. It's just my way, as I never do that to others, ever.

[Andrew Souter]

Also, are the demo files a subset of the A01 KS option or will 01 KS add 14,000+ files to what is in the demo?

I'm one of the ones who actually bought it and like it a lot, regardless of the answer to this question. Installed without a hitch. Runs fine with no unforseen issues. Makes nice, unexpected sounds. I got my moneys worth. I don't want to pile on at all, but if I was a well-known KVR guy, would this eventually get answered? I remember every ignored post and email that I've experienced over the years. It's just my way, as I never do that to others, ever.

come on man. don't be silly...

I love you guys.

Look at our home page right now. Do you see KS mentioned on it? Do you find it linked in the Galbanum store? Did you receive an official email announcement about it yet? Is it mentioned in the KVR main news yet?

No? Why not? B/c I have spent almost all weekend hanging out here answering questions etc before it was even officially released...

can you imagine the quantity of questions I have to answer about this kind of thing, or even just a new product in general?? Almost entirely by myself... (thank god for Simon and Jim who donate their time to be incredibly helpful too! )

I'm sorry if something gets overlooked in this thread. This is NOT the official support area. Email is. But I am here simply bc I love what I do and I like interacting with you guys and hearing what you think about our efforts...

[rustman]

Sorry for being silly. So you aren't going to answer it, correct?

No worries. It's obvious and impressive how much time you've spent here, pre-official release helping out and explaining. I noticed and appreciated from minute one. I'm not "that guy". I'm not holding a grudge. I like your products. Hell, I like you, from what I've seen...with this one little exception....

[Andrew Souter]

Sorry for being silly. So you aren't going to answer it, correct?

what?

It was already answered I thought?

[arachnaut]

If I may add some simple advice.

Don't worry about tuning files, unless you a specific compositional need for some sort of tuning spectrum, you will probably just hit these things at random. I tend to prefer the very simple tunings when I decide to use them at all and my 'music' is mostly untuned mayhem.

Get your DAW set up first and optimize the settings for 1 spring and then 1 string and then multiple strings and springs. I have not explored FIR stuff at all.

Figure out what the knobs do. In particular, the amount of white noise to add to your input sounds. If you have wide spectrum input (like percussion) you won't need much white noise. Just remember the input sound is a 'hammer' that hits all those resonators which are built up of the brightest pixels selected (tuned) by the 'red lined' frequencies from the tuning file.

I recommend the rhythmic stuff at first so you can hear more immediate results, but my own 'music' is mostly non-metrical.

Experiment and save presets you find useful. Go through the major folders one-by-one to find the types of files you like.

Eventually you will get the hang of it.

Then go read the manual. It is very detailed. I've gone through it four times.

My approach when I started was to select a random MIDI generator (like Reaktor Spiral or Fractal Tune Smithy, etc.) sending notes to a richly textured sound from a synth like Diva or Bazille and then passing that to Kaleidoscope on a send BUSS and then using Breeze in the Master BUSS.

[Andrew Souter]

Sorry for being silly. So you aren't going to answer it, correct?

what?

It was already answered I thought?

page 17 already answered, in response to you...

Also, are the demo files a subset of the A01 KS option or will 01 KS add 14,000+ files to what is in the demo?

In general: I have been making more resources for KS. I have all the original AV1 content, reformatted for KS, plus I have new materials I have stated to make while developing KS. Beta testers had this material also. Presets are made by selecting resources to use and then making all the additional settings in KS. In the end we collected whatever was used in presets and included this as the factory Resource Library. So, some (a lot) of it came from AV1. So there are duplicates between the factory Bank and the AV1 collection. But it's less than 10%.

I also added about 1100 new images to the AV1 KS collection that were not int he original AV1. This is new stuff I made while developing KS. This is actually some of the coolest images, like the "Scalar" folders and new rhythmic stuff... I used a lot of this in the factory content.

I'm not clear on the waveform stuff yet. I assume that my 32 bit A2010 waveforms are of no use here? Would I benefit from buying them again in 64 bit?

You do need the 64-bit format yes. If you have any other format of this already you can get it for 50% off.

As to whether or not you would benefit? I don't know. Waveform tuning mode is great for the reasons explained above, but it is not for everyone. If you want to use KS for purely musical things, probably it is not needed. If you are a sound-designer for visual media, or like experimental things and like to explore new areas of possibility then yes. I figure the 1,818 waveforms in AV1 are enough to satisfy the casual user, so I don't try to make everyone buy the full 2010 waveforms set at this point. Purely optional.

The thing about waveforms is this: a scale consists of fixed ratios, say semitones for example. Every step is always the same ratio and always results in same absolute frequency when applied to the same reference pitch. A waveform is more like a "relative geometry" you scale it to fit any frequency range you would like.

Therefore a SINGLE waveform can really be used to create an infinite number of tonality sets. For example if you use a Sine waveform that is scaled to occupy the space of one semitone, it is going to sound completely different than a sine waveform that is scaled to stretch from 20 to 20,000 Hz. Or 1 to 100,000 Hz, or something even more extreme.

So for atonal/experimental, generally non-musical tonalities/spectrums, using waveforms is more powerful than using scales...

Depends on what you want to do with KS if this is useful or not to you...

Hope it helps.

[arachnaut]

Also, don't forget that you have two parts to Kaleidoscope - the input side and the output side.

You can make the input side oriented to ambient settings to get a blurry sound and then pass that through an output side that is sharp and metric to get pulsed ambient niceties.

Or you can chop up the input and then spread it out with gooey goodness.

Or have two different metrics and two different mushinesses.

Or just turn one off (IN or OUT), save 50% CPU, and just explore those settings in isolation.

One could also get a spectrogram of some sound and use that as the resonator image file. This requires some reading of the manual, so save that for later.

[rustman]

I think our posts must have been colliding at that time. I had been following the entire thread when I made that initial post and your reply was not there at that moment. I didn't go back and re-read the thread.
Regardless:
1. My apologies. I missed it, even though I was looking for it carefully.
2. Your reply was excellent. Above and beyond what I was expecting.
3. I've embarrassed myself.
4. I still love the product.
5. I'll be quiet now.

[jackmazzotti]

I'm not clear on the waveform stuff yet. I assume that my 32 bit A2010 waveforms are of no use here? Would I benefit from buying them again in 64 bit?

You do need the 64-bit format yes. If you have any other format of this already you can get it for 50% off.
[/quote][/quote]

How do you get 50% off the 64 bit? It isn't showing up in my shop. I bought the 32bit.