One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[bjporter]

Several people have suggested T-Force Alpha Plus for a future OSC, and I would like to see that happen
As I have used this synth in a previous OSC (Any One Synth) i will make a few observations.
1. It is a windows only, which might exclude some folks.
2. It does use a lot of CPU, gave me a few problems on that score (tho i did manage 30 instances).
3. The sound of it is Awesome! Especially for trance

Well, if we freeze every track, it might be doable.

Do you guys have a good system / work flow for freezing tracks?

Well, good is a matter of opinion. Let's just say it works for me.

When I do a group of tracks, I try to map out the arrangement in advance. So I'll record and mix each sub group separately. Once that sub group is mixed, I can then freeze the whole group as nothing else is going to come into play other than the overall compression and limiting of the entire piece.

Where this gets tricky is where there are overlapping sections.

For example:

Let's take a hypothetical piece.

Kick - 0:00 to 2:48
Snare - 00:12 to 2:48
Hi Hat - 00:12 to 2:48
Bass - 00:12 to 2:48

Lead 1 - 00:30 to 1:00
Lead 2 - 00:48 to 1:15

Pad 1 - 00:30 to 1:00
Pad 2 - 1:01 to 1:15

ARP 1 - 1:00 to 1:30
Synth 1 - 1:15 to 1:45

Pad 3 - 1:16 to 2:48
Lead 3 - 1:16 to 2:48

As you can see, the foundation of the song covers many different sub groups and some sub groups over lap with others.

What I have to do is make some decisions in the planning stages of what levels I'm going to want to maintain throughout the piece. If I freeze the whole foundation (kick, snare, hat, bass) I better make sure that everything I place around it is going to fit regardless of where in the mix it is time wise.

In other words, lead 2 has to be at a similar level to lead 1 and lead 3. Otherwise, what happens is you have spots in the mix where the foundation is either too loud or too soft.

So I choose a db level for each track and live with it. If there's going to be automation where a track goes up or down in volume (like with risers) then I have to map the low and high db end and make sure it's not too loud or soft at the endpoints.

Lotta work? Sure is. Which is why I'll only do this in a case where I have a VST where more than 3 or 4 instances of it blows up my machine. Normally, I just tend to stay away from them. But if push came to shove and I absolutely had to make a track with a particular VST, this is what I would do.

Please don't ask me to. LOL.

Thanks, I appreciate this nugget of wisdom.

[wagtunes]

I'm posting this here because I don't want to start a ****storm in the actual OSC thread where voting is going on right now.

There is one track that I just voted on a little while ago (which I gave a high score to) that clearly used a formant filter on one of the sounds. I know this because the synth itself doesn't have one and this is as clear as the "eye" is long.

Now, it's not like this is some insignificant part. In fact, it is a major part of the track and without it, the track loses a lot. It's a featured point.

I know whenever people ask if they can use filters the answer is "yes, just use your judgment or discretion" but IMO, this use goes against the spirit of what this competition is all about.

I don't make the rules, but if this is acceptable practice, then I need to loosen up my own restrictions and start getting creative. Free plugs or not, if we're going to go this far off from the "natural" sound of the synth, I need to get with the program.

My 2 cents for whatever they're worth.

[psmacmur]

Pretty sure it's a Bitcrusher. IMHO, "the spirit of what this competition is all about" evolves, defined by us, the current community, and how we vote influences that. My impression is that, of late, tracks with liberally-applied effects get voted well, but in cases I'm thinking of, the tracks are great and the effects are genre-appropriate.

A couple times, tracks with very voxy (not bitcrushed) sounds have been called out, and the effects turned out to be entirely in-synth, despite a lack of format filters. Even the ARP 2600 can do the yoy/eye; in that case, I believe it's more about modulation than having a formant filter per se.

[wagtunes]

Pretty sure it's a Bitcrusher. IMHO, "the spirit of what this competition is all about" evolves, defined by us, the current community, and how we vote influences that. My impression is that, of late, tracks with liberally-applied effects get voted well, but in cases I'm thinking of, the tracks are great and the effects are genre-appropriate.

A couple times, tracks with very voxy (not bitcrushed) sounds have been called out, and the effects turned out to be entirely in-synth, despite a lack of format filters. Even the ARP 2600 can do the yoy/eye; in that case, I believe it's more about modulation than having a formant filter per se.

Well, if this was all done in synth, then props to the guy. Great job!

Obviously, I have no way of knowing. I do know that there is no way I can get that sound out of the synth without bringing in some FX from the outside.

Like you said. The community decides what's acceptable so if this track isn't called out and all is well, then so be it.

I would just hate to put together a track one month and have somebody say "that's not allowed" and have all my hard work go down the drain. Up to now, I've been playing things very safe.

Like I said, maybe it's time I just "got with the program."

[mehum]

I really think that resonant filters (as opposed to EQ, which is more filter as a tool) should be explicitly banned. The filter is so big part in what makes a Synth's character.

I've heard some filter action that I doubt as well, but this sounded more "acid". If I see a filter in that track's post i think I'll consider taking a point off

[wagtunes]

I really think that resonant filters (as opposed to EQ, which is more filter as a tool) should be explicitly banned. The filter is so big part in what makes a Synth's character.

I've heard some filter action that I doubt as well, but this sounded more "acid". If I see a filter in that track's post i think I'll consider taking a point off

That is exactly my point. Filters make or break synths. Some of the early SynthEdit filters were ghastly. Some of them hardly did anything at all.

Imagine putting resonant filters on these synths. Would make them sound like a totally different animal.

But, whatever. Like I said, I don't make the rules and I try my damnedest to follow them. But sometimes I think I'm just making things harder on myself.

[bjporter]

I really think that resonant filters (as opposed to EQ, which is more filter as a tool) should be explicitly banned. The filter is so big part in what makes a Synth's character.

I've heard some filter action that I doubt as well, but this sounded more "acid". If I see a filter in that track's post i think I'll consider taking a point off

I love using resonance as a tool, for example to make the snare pop more. Sometimes I might use resonance to extend the bass release, but that's pretty much it. I've made a note of your concern too.

[H-man]

Hi all, just thought I would chip in here on the topic of risqué effect use.

It's not an advantage at all IMO. When you wander into a grey area there is increased likely-hood that other OSCs will mark you down for it. Whether it is in fact legit or was just done because the artist wanted that sound in the track, there is still high risk of getting 1'ed for it.

Remember you can call for the project file too (to be sent to Brian that is) if I'm not mistaken.

[fese]

I really think that resonant filters (as opposed to EQ, which is more filter as a tool) should be explicitly banned. The filter is so big part in what makes a Synth's character.

If you mean dedicated synth modeled filter plugins, i agree, but of course you can build resonant filters with most DAW EQs to alter the sounds quite radically (maybe lacking the "character" of a synth filter plug). Is that just "mixing"?
Having listened to some OSC tracks now i am pretty sure that especially some drum sounds have been drastically altered by eq/comp and the "Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed." rule gets violated quite often...
It's a thin line and i sometimes think that OSC should do away completely with the rules about what effects to use and what not.

[Parduz]

Well, i'm in OSC from #71 and i always had used EQ to transform white noises in snares and hihats by band-passing low freq and enhancing mid / hi freqs. (uhm, no, i did a single track without added effects.... well, not important). Should i been banned?

I agree that the rule is stated for ppl using common sense, and can't stand in a debate with rule lawyers, but c'mon. It's eq'ing! Can't we just have fun? Have we to open a poll for each OSC to vote which tracks are to be banned from the contest?
If someone find a track violating the (foggy?) rules just PM BJPorter and i'm sure he will handle the case in a way that will please the great majority of us all.

[Reefius]

I've heard some filter action that I doubt as well, but this sounded more "acid". If I see a filter in that track's post i think I'll consider taking a point off

I hope you´re not referring to my track, as it contains some acid It´s all done by using automation on the synth´s built-in filter, no external or DAW filters were used.

As for EQ and compression: I don´t believe they change the sound beyond recognition, they´re just tools to make each sound sit better in the mix. Especially compression, since all it does is alter the volume of a sound. Things like chorus or flanger on the other hand can make a sound completely unrecognisable, that´s why they´re not allowed.

[wagtunes]

Well, i'm in OSC from #71 and i always had used EQ to transform white noises in snares and hihats by band-passing low freq and enhancing mid / hi freqs. (uhm, no, i did a single track without added effects.... well, not important). Should i been banned?

I agree that the rule is stated for ppl using common sense, and can't stand in a debate with rule lawyers, but c'mon. It's eq'ing! Can't we just have fun? Have we to open a poll for each OSC to vote which tracks are to be banned from the contest?
If someone find a track violating the (foggy?) rules just PM BJPorter and i'm sure he will handle the case in a way that will please the great majority of us all.

My point is, and I guess I should have made this clear, is I think the rule itself is stupid. If we're going to use anything to alter the sound of a synth (because that's what we're doing regardless of what FX we use and how much or little we use them) why bother having the rule at all? It still puts everybody on a level playing field if we limit FX to what can be downloaded free or what comes with your DAW.

Want to put distortion on your synth to get a screaming lead guitar? Go for it? Who cares if everybody else is allowed to do the same thing? Not everybody's track is going to want to have a screaming lead guitar. But is it really any different from creating a formant vowel on a synth that can't produce one any other way?

Because the rule can be abused and because there are so many gray areas with it, it's a rule that is pointless to have, unlike the no resampling, splicing, etc of the synth because that literally turns it into another synth or something else.

In short, if FX are going to be allowed to be used, then ALL FX should be allowed to be used, from distortions to phasers to whatever.

Otherwise, we have entrants walking on egg shells wondering "Is this going to be okay or will I be flagged for it?" because there are so many gray areas.

Gray areas cause nothing but problems which is why we're having this discussion in the first place. The problem will not go away until the gray areas go away.

[mehum]

I really think that resonant filters (as opposed to EQ, which is more filter as a tool) should be explicitly banned. The filter is so big part in what makes a Synth's character.

If you mean dedicated synth modeled filter plugins, i agree, but of course you can build resonant filters with most DAW EQs to alter the sounds quite radically (maybe lacking the "character" of a synth filter plug). Is that just "mixing"?
Having listened to some OSC tracks now i am pretty sure that especially some drum sounds have been drastically altered by eq/comp and the "Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed." rule gets violated quite often...
It's a thin line and i sometimes think that OSC should do away completely with the rules about what effects to use and what not.

Yeah, exactly. Basically filters with a resonance knob Sure, any EQ with a Q setting can be used to similar effect.

Well, i'm in OSC from #71 and i always had used EQ to transform white noises in snares and hihats by band-passing low freq and enhancing mid / hi freqs. (uhm, no, i did a single track without added effects.... well, not important). Should i been banned?

I agree that the rule is stated for ppl using common sense, and can't stand in a debate with rule lawyers, but c'mon. It's eq'ing! Can't we just have fun? Have we to open a poll for each OSC to vote which tracks are to be banned from the contest?
If someone find a track violating the (foggy?) rules just PM BJPorter and i'm sure he will handle the case in a way that will please the great majority of us all.

I'm not interested in rules lawyering or banning anyone either. It's not what I mean. And EQ was specifically what I said should be allowed

Just saying that if chorus, which can be used very subtly without losing the character of the synthesizer, is specifically banned resonant filters, like the ones found in any subtractive synth, should be explicitly banned as well. They basically have only one usage and that is to make characteristic filter stuff Anything else they do can be done with most parametric EQ:s.

Another way to go would be to allow anything. As it stands now it of course is up to the discretion of each entrant and voter to value how they "should" be used. I'm OK any way this goes but think that it would be in line with the "spirit" of the contest.

[mehum]

I've heard some filter action that I doubt as well, but this sounded more "acid". If I see a filter in that track's post i think I'll consider taking a point off

I hope you´re not referring to my track, as it contains some acid It´s all done by using automation on the synth´s built-in filter, no external or DAW filters were used.

As for EQ and compression: I don´t believe they change the sound beyond recognition, they´re just tools to make each sound sit better in the mix. Especially compression, since all it does is alter the volume of a sound. Things like chorus or flanger on the other hand can make a sound completely unrecognisable, that´s why they´re not allowed.

Haha, no this time it was someone else's. I actually don't know which track it was since I was just having it on in the background.

[Parduz]

Well, i'm in OSC from #71 and i always had used EQ to transform white noises in snares and hihats by band-passing low freq and enhancing mid / hi freqs. (uhm, no, i did a single track without added effects.... well, not important). Should i been banned?

I agree that the rule is stated for ppl using common sense, and can't stand in a debate with rule lawyers, but c'mon. It's eq'ing! Can't we just have fun? Have we to open a poll for each OSC to vote which tracks are to be banned from the contest?
If someone find a track violating the (foggy?) rules just PM BJPorter and i'm sure he will handle the case in a way that will please the great majority of us all.

My point is, and I guess I should have made this clear, is I think the rule itself is stupid.

I got your point, and mine is that the rule is perfectly right. It needs to be arbitrated by us (the contestant) or by a "referee". To me it make perfect sense, as it is a (good, imho) compromise between the desire to EQ a single instrument or a whole tune to get something pleasant to hear and vote, and the desire to let the synth sound being "the star" without being altered by something else.
So i'm happy to use a parametric EQ and fine with not using any resonant filter or modulating effects (despite the fact that i feel like making footing without a shoe).

If we're going to use anything to alter the sound of a synth (because that's what we're doing regardless of what FX we use and how much or little we use them) why bother having the rule at all? It still puts everybody on a level playing field if we limit FX to what can be downloaded free or what comes with your DAW.

Want to put distortion on your synth to get a screaming lead guitar? Go for it? Who cares if everybody else is allowed to do the same thing? Not everybody's track is going to want to have a screaming lead guitar. But is it really any different from creating a formant vowel on a synth that can't produce one any other way?

Because the rule can be abused and because there are so many gray areas with it, it's a rule that is pointless to have, unlike the no resampling, splicing, etc of the synth because that literally turns it into another synth or something else.

In short, if FX are going to be allowed to be used, then ALL FX should be allowed to be used, from distortions to phasers to whatever.

Otherwise, we have entrants walking on egg shells wondering "Is this going to be okay or will I be flagged for it?" because there are so many gray areas.

Gray areas cause nothing but problems which is why we're having this discussion in the first place. The problem will not go away until the gray areas go away.

I dunno, as I said i'm here from 4 or 5 months and i havent got any problem after perhaps a couple of question. I don't think i'm an alien. Jeez, i even have to read the things 3 times 'cause i lack formal english school.
To make an example:
Have you ever played skirmish tabletop miniature games? There's some ruleset made for friendly games, and ruleset made for international challenges. I'm perfectly fine with both of them, as long someone don't tries to enforce rule lawyering in a friendly game, or friendly "rules" (or better: "let it be that way" behaviour) in an official competition.
OSC is clearly a friendly competition, more geared toward showing of some skills, get feedback and learn from the others than becoming famous and winning the price. So to me the rule is'nt stupid at all: it works most of the time, and if sometime one feels that a rule was breaked there's a referee. I can't ask (i won't ask) for anything more than this.

I'm not interested in rules lawyering or banning anyone either. It's not what I mean. And EQ was specifically what I said should be allowed

Sorry i have'nt been clear. I was not answering you directly, just talking out loud about the mood that i don't understand