Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[Synthetic Wav]

we use stereotype criteria of analog to try to find the answer, more bottem end, one is more dark ect..but analog have nothing to do with this in fact..there is some thin analog synth, some are bright some are dark..analog sound mean nothing , there is as many analog sounds as analog gears almost ,the only thing these all share in common is the abscence of digital artifacts and maybe certain depth and alive feeling.

[Ogopogo]

Possible conclusions:

1) The hardware aficionados of KVR are delusive to an extent where they suffer from auditory hallucinations

Or

2) Urs has made a digital synth that sounds more "analogue" than analogue synths

Or

3) the characteristics associated with analogue synths are bullshit, it is all about whether they are noisy enough to be recognized as such

Add your own. There are probably plenty

I was the one that said that what ended being diva sounded more warm and a bit more rich. I still stick by that pretty much, those are just the words I could find to try to describe the small differences I was hearing. By "warm" I just meant less cutty, less top end sometimes. "Rich" meant I thought I heard more going on at times, I don't know how to describe that but maybe harmonics or some interesting movement in the low end.

You purposely cut out this part of my quote: "It seems extremely close to me though. I would not be surprised at all if I were wrong and you could make great music with both."

Anyway, interesting to see that I was wrong. The weird thing is that I have demoed Diva and I didn't like the sound that much. And since this test I went back to it and I'm still not crazy about the sound. So now I'm wondering if it's just bias, or not knowing how to program it, or if Diva is copying some sounds pretty much perfect, but not the sounds that I like.

[Elektronisch]

Urs just made a new quality level of sound wich is even better then analog

I love Diva, but i was sure analog will sound the way i used to hear. I am actually very surprised by the result. I was very sure B is Diva. But i am happy about the result, because this test (even its not scientific) proves that plugin can sound as much as good (in this case even better) as the real deal.

I guess now we can start comparing analog synths to U-He Diva with a question in mind "does it sound as good as Diva?"

[wagtunes]

Possible conclusions:

1) The hardware aficionados of KVR are delusive to an extent where they suffer from auditory hallucinations

Or

2) Urs has made a digital synth that sounds more "analogue" than analogue synths

Or

3) the characteristics associated with analogue synths are bullshit, it is all about whether they are noisy enough to be recognized as such

Add your own. There are probably plenty

I was the one that said that what ended being diva sounded more warm and a bit more rich. I still stick by that pretty much, those are just the words I could find to try to describe the small differences I was hearing. By "warm" I just meant less cutty, less top end sometimes. "Rich" meant I thought I heard more going on at times, I don't know how to describe that but maybe harmonics or some interesting movement in the low end.

You purposely cut out this part of my quote: "It seems extremely close to me though. I would not be surprised at all if I were wrong and you could make great music with both."

Anyway, interesting to see that I was wrong. The weird thing is that I have demoed Diva and I didn't like the sound that much. And since this test I went back to it and I'm still not crazy about the sound. So now I'm wondering if it's just bias, or not knowing how to program it, or if Diva is copying some sounds pretty much perfect, but not the sounds that I like.

I didn't like Diva at first either. I wasn't going to buy it. But after taking the plunge and giving it a chance, I can honestly say that I love the synth. Is it my favorite? No. IMO, these VA synths are still "limited" to number of sounds they can make. I prefer, just in U-he's line alone, Zebra 2 and Bazille because they are more versatile as far as the spectrum of sounds with Zebra 2 just being off the charts flexible.

But what Diva does, it does very well, IMO. I don't care if hardware enthusiasts don't like it or think it's inferior. I don't make music to please them. I make it to please me. And Diva makes that music just fine.

[Mutant]

Mutant I was just writing you a response and thinking about starting up my main machine but I just realised I dont care because you are wrong,

Wrong about what exactly ?
About Diva not giving warped, bent, broken slopes on her saw oscillator ?
Or about Diva giving smoothly curved slopes ?

I shouldnt have got sucked in in the first place but its irritating to be accused. Think what you like!

There are 2 possibilities.
One is: you are lying.
Second is: you made a mistake somewhere in the process.

Good thing is that everyone can download the demo and confirm that Diva gives the shape i posted, not the shape you posted.
You can't argue that.
Or are you trying to convince everyone that black is gray without even adding some white to the black ?

[ot]
Also oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers are there for you to use, not instead of using your ears, but to help your ears.
Maybe if you did, the sounds would be closer, without Diva sounding better most of the time.
Some time ago i matched one Diva preset by Ingonator, with some other VSTi, i used my ears and my eyes:
https://app.box.com/s/kry8lb6y7azaj2dicb8ye65sd6kn8lhi
It was only for fun, not for money, so it is not like i did my absolute best.

[EnGee]

A is OB and B is Diva.
There are slight differences. A is more snappy while B gives the impression it is trying hard to match!

Now, if Diva is A, and I'm wrong, then this would kill any desire inside me to look for any analog synth! I would stay a digital guy

Yep, this test has killed the desire inside me to buy an analog synth this year
Next year though, I might have the desire to buy Pulse 2

Possible conclusions:

1) The hardware aficionados of KVR are delusive to an extent where they suffer from auditory hallucinations

Or

2) Urs has made a digital synth that sounds more "analogue" than analogue synths

Or

3) the characteristics associated with analogue synths are bullshit, it is all about whether they are noisy enough to be recognized as such

Add your own. There are probably plenty

I think you have nailed it with these possibilities
So, for me there is no need to buy analog synth, nor Diva! If someone could make Synth1 sounds like Diva some time ago, then I will try to make SEM V, Arp2600 V, Vacuum Pro or even Retrologue to sound like Diva (or OB8)! Oh, wait! I can try with my Blofeld (after all it has the basic VA waves) and enjoy watching the cpu usage at most 2% at relax power scheme with 88.2 kHz sample rate in the DAW (as I don't mind if it is 75%-85% Diva but with 75%-85% less cpu usage)

[JerGoertz]

What can I say, Diva sounds more analog than analog to me, apparently.

Would you be so kind as to provide the MIDI files that were used to create the individual patches demo (the second group of sound examples) along with the names of the patches used for each comparison? Or provide the DAW project file(s) as part of purchasing your soundset?

Answers:

Synth A: u-he Diva with Classic OB presets



http://swanaudio.co.uk/

Synth B: Oberheim OB8




Hope you guys enjoyed the test...I will leave up the wav downloads for as long as possible...

[Mutant]

Would you be so kind as to provide the MIDI files that were used to create the individual patches demo (the second group of sound examples) along with the names of the patches used for each comparison? Or provide the DAW project file(s) as part of purchasing your soundset?

I bet 1 cookie he will not do that.
I already asked him for the name of the preset used for the first sound in 2nd wav.
Obviously he has something to hide.

[Locus M]

Do not put too much into all this guys. I am just pulling your legs. As noted by the scientist with multi personality disorder it is hard to avoid being biased once most answers point to one of the options. Whether succes or failure you have all won some material for further reflection and discussions of this wonderful never ending and completely musically irrelevant topic.

[Synthetic Wav]

what i have noticed with these test..you always have to stick with your first impression,if you listen too much, you check all the details ect, in the end you have listened to much to the file and start to have some doubt while often the first impression is pretty clear.

[kvaca]

Would you be so kind as to provide the MIDI files that were used to create the individual patches demo (the second group of sound examples) along with the names of the patches used for each comparison? Or provide the DAW project file(s) as part of purchasing your soundset?

I bet 1 cookie he will not do that.
I already asked him for the name of the preset used for the first sound in 2nd wav.
Obviously he has something to hide.

nice...
so I decided to keep my ears in place until he reveal that preset name and post unmasked audio samples

[zerocrossing]

I seem to remember getting quite an education from zerocrossings (again) on the obvious sound of analogue and Synth A

Golden ears indeed.

Yeah! And don't you come back!

Lucky for me, I already own Diva and I don't have the money or room for an OB-X even if I wanted one. I have maintained this whole time that those types of sounds are clearly in my venn diagram of sounds that it doesn't matter if you use hardware or software, unless there's a character of an instrument and it's either one, then you have to go with the specific instrument with the character you desire. I have said this all along and I still stand by it.

A while back I was OCDidly searching for a synth to complete my collection. I had a few analog monos and a poly. I'm still of the mind that there's no reason for for me to have anything like a DX series, or CZ hardware synth. I even determined that all digital VA/Wavetable synths like the Access Virus have long been surpassed by software, but I love wavetable synths, so I looked at the Prophet 12 or the Modulus .002. The .002 was out of my range (though I could get the 8 voice rack now). Even the Prophet 12 was stretching things. I'd have to get rid of a few bits to own one. It would hurt a little.

So I found a 12 at an amazing price. (so amazing it must have been a mistake, but I digress) I went for it. I had to hear for myself. I figured that if I didn't like it I could sell it at profit (pun intended). I'd listened to a lot of demos and while 20% of them sounded amazing, 50% of them sounded like I'd be just as happy with software and 30% of them sounded kind of crappy. Anyway, my tale can be read in other threads on GS and DSI's forum, but I swear I had the thing boxed up to resell several times in the first week I had it. For the same of time, let's just say it's easy to make sound crappy.

But I stuck with it. I kept thinking back to the amazing demos I'd heard. Listen to this guy's tracks. He's a bear!

https://soundcloud.com/elberstein/tracks

Anyway, I got past its flaws and figured out how to make it sound amazing. Around the time I got it, Omnisphere 2 came out. I totally had it in mind that I was probably better off just sticking with Omnisphere 2, and the other softies I already owned. So, I went head to head with the Prophet 12 and some the wavetable synths I own. I think I used Serum, Codex, Zebra 2 and Omnisphere 2. My first reaction was that I could get great sound out of all of these instruments, but when I took the 12 and cranked up the gain a bit and added a little distortion and feedback, I could get a "coming apart at the seams" kind of sound that I could not get out of any of the software synths. I think I even went to a synth like Vacuum Pro to see if it did similar distressed tones, and I couldn't get close.

So the Prophet 12 stayed. Also, it's hardware controller is amazing. Near perfect UI with a great keybed and pressure sensitive touch strips. We could argue all day long that it's not any better than software, but there's no doubt in my mind that it's capable of sounds that no software (that I know of) can do. So that's that.

[Hank the Knife]

'Obviously he has something to hide.'
@Mutant
Hmm.. there's another option: they want you to buy the presets and look up the preset yourself.
However, if the preset is not in the Oberheim presets then that would mean they got something to hide. Curious. Did anyone actually buy these presets and found the matching preset to this test?
Guess we'll have to wait

[braj]

I dunno about sound, but there is definitely something to be said for having a dedicated controller with knobs permanently mapped to the same controls, I think a big part of the draw of analog beyond nostalgia (I would love to have an EMS to fiddle with) is just the sheer physicality of the package. You more readily build more of a relationship with physical things IMO. And software's benefits are the sheer non-physicality of the thing, no extra hardware, no extra cords, easy integration with hosts for automation, much lower cost. If the downside is a small difference in quality or character, well, that is a small price to pay. At the end of the day everyone should just use what works for them. Look at guitar players, Willie Nelson played a beat up old nylon-string guitar live for years on end because it suited what he wanted to do, his relationship with that guitar was deep. And many of the acts that feature beloved synths like early Depeche Mode I know just used what they could get their hands on. We are way spoiled with software. Much of the time musical innovation comes from the limitations of the equipment used, not perfection.

[Synthetic Wav]

me i don't have this relation with my gears, it s more about the sound, if i want analog sound with no compromise analog is the way to go but i usally just use software..i make music for dancefloor, and good sound system are so flatering no one will give a f**k about what i use. if i was after the best quality possible i will use analog for what it does best combined with the strenght of digital. (still when in the mood i may use analog for bassline if i m not lazy, and for some audiorate modulation stuff here and there, syncro ,fm..also for delay chorus flanger, saturation,compression equing but just on sound where it really matter, like some audiorate analog fx sound , some acid line ect..)
what matter more is the workflow and yes for some guys hardware may be more inspiring .

but on sort of sound analog have clearly the edge is on drums and percussion it seems to me..could be wrong but it seems analog drums still rule electronic music and for now i haven't been impressed with digital drum machine and digital synth drums as much as analog but i didn't try much tbh.i have a future retro Xs and this synth is such a beast at making drums sounds .i see future retro realeased a sample pack of it . must be great for anyone into experimental, industrial stuff ,techno .. i have to check this.