News from fxpansion >GEIST 2<

[pdxindy]

Im sure you will see this kind of UI more and more. People want 'scalable vector UIs', its hot, its new, new sells, so there you go.

Unfortunately the whole thing has a flaw: Things have to be kept simple so the up- and downscaling process doesnt make the UI look like a blurry mess. The result is unicolors and simple shapes everywhere, otherwise the UI might not be able to 'survive' the scaling process without the whole thing looking like crap on sizes other than 'native'.

To be honest; i wouldnt do that. I much prefer the attractiveness of a UI that is made using static images that can be as complex as i wish them to be in terms of both colors and shape. As a developer that has to take increasingly extreme screen resolution differences into account i would therefore not go vector, but instead offer my UI in 3 fixed sizes (small/medium/large) so that it can be used on all screens without having to make quality compromises in the 'looks' department.

The U-he synths scale in 10% increments (14 steps)... problem solved

[basslinemaster]

From that shot, I'm not impressed. I also don't like Strobe 2's new GUI.

Honestly, that pic looks like a mess. It looks like a design I would come up with...and that's far from a compliment.

I totally agree, look at the 'ghost buttons', and the 'flat' look. Why can't designers just think for themselves and not blindly copy whatever some other designer has come up with, and which is apparently 'in fashion'? It looks absolutely awful.

[basslinemaster]

Im sure you will see this kind of UI more and more. People want 'scalable vector UIs', its hot, its new, new sells, so there you go.

Unfortunately the whole thing has a flaw: Things have to be kept simple so the up- and downscaling process doesnt make the UI look like a blurry mess. The result is unicolors and simple shapes everywhere, otherwise the UI might not be able to 'survive' the scaling process without the whole thing looking like crap on sizes other than 'native'.

To be honest; i wouldnt do that. I much prefer the attractiveness of a UI that is made using static images that can be as complex as i wish them to be in terms of both colors and shape. As a developer that has to take increasingly extreme screen resolution differences into account i would therefore not go vector, but instead offer my UI in 3 fixed sizes (small/medium/large) so that it can be used on all screens without having to make quality compromises in the 'looks' department.

Surely a developer can create multiple versions of a GUI at different sizes, and save them as bitmaps, and supply them all in the VST? It isn't rocket science, I presume no GUI components are hand drawn, they presumably design everything originally in Illustrator or some other vector based program, don't they?

[ENV1]

The U-he synths scale in 10% increments (14 steps)... problem solved

Yeah, they have those steps. But last i checked, (which would have been when Tyrell V2 was released), they were using purely static images too, which means that using a size other than the images 'native' size will inevitably lead to blurring as well, just as in the vector case.

And this is unavoidable, BTW. Its basically the same effect that you see with LCD screens: There is only 1 size (the native resolution) where everything looks 100% sharp. Select some other resolution and the screen content has to be interpolated, and that will inevitably have an effect on the sharpness of things.

Its one of these things that just cant be helped. So if you want no-compromises sharpness i dont think there are currently many more options besides providing several fixed-sized UIs so that no sharpness is lost to an interpolation process.

(I know, not always feasible, just saying.)

[ENV1]

Surely a developer can create multiple versions of a GUI at different sizes, and save them as bitmaps, and supply them all in the VST? It isn't rocket science, I presume no GUI components are hand drawn, they presumably design everything originally in Illustrator or some other vector based program, don't they?

Of course they could, its how its usually done.

The problem is only that you cant scale a bitmap (or PNG or whatever) without loss of sharpness, which means static images and continuous scaling as provided by vector UIs just dont go well together.

As i was saying, if you want no-compromises sharpness you can pretty much only make an UI in different static sizes and offer those as options, i.e. not have any sizes inbetween that would require the UI to be interpolated.

[pdxindy]

The U-he synths scale in 10% increments (14 steps)... problem solved

Yeah, they have those steps. But last i checked, (which would have been when Tyrell V2 was released), they were using purely static images too, which means that using a size other than the images 'native' size will inevitably lead to blurring as well, just as in the vector case.

And this is unavoidable, BTW. Its basically the same effect that you see with LCD screens: There is only 1 size (the native resolution) where everything looks 100% sharp. Select some other resolution and the screen content has to be interpolated, and that will inevitably have an effect on the sharpness of things.

Its one of these things that just cant be helped. So if you want no-compromises sharpness i dont think there are currently many more options besides providing several fixed-sized UIs so that no sharpness is lost to an interpolation process.

(I know, not always feasible, just saying.)

You obviously haven't checked in a while

The U-he GUI's have mostly been updated (A new Zebra GUI is in beta) and are now crisp at all sizes. Give Hive a try for example...

[Orbit-50]

First off, this is just a preview of what they are working on as far as I'm aware, so lets save judgment for judgment day.

Very good point.

Secondly they have a problem, form vs function, so lets try being constructive instead of destructive.

I was going to bash the crap out of it, but what you're saying went through my mind right before I was going to post from the barrel of my Howitzer. I said to myself "I might not be into it, but you know what? There are probably a nice bunch of people, who love all the features that FXpansion has included in Geist and don't give a toss what it looks like or the fact that it might not be totally streamlined." They really have a point, because it does a hell of a lot for what it actually is.

Thirdly, I don't know of any other product like it without buying hardware soooo

That was the other thing. I was thinking that there are so many other VST alternatives to Geist, but I realized that there actually aren't.

[deastman]

Surely a developer can create multiple versions of a GUI at different sizes, and save them as bitmaps, and supply them all in the VST? It isn't rocket science, I presume no GUI components are hand drawn, they presumably design everything originally in Illustrator or some other vector based program, don't they?

Of course they could, its how its usually done.

The problem is only that you cant scale a bitmap (or PNG or whatever) without loss of sharpness, which means static images and continuous scaling as provided by vector UIs just dont go well together.

As i was saying, if you want no-compromises sharpness you can pretty much only make an UI in different static sizes and offer those as options, i.e. not have any sizes inbetween that would require the UI to be interpolated.

There is another option. You can render realistic 3D GUIs on the fly with OpenGL. That isn't as commonly done, but it is an option.

You can also do a hybrid of prerendered knobs in varying sizes with a vector background, dynamic text, and decent layout manager.

There are many possible permutations.

[EagleZone]

Bought Geist fairly recently, so had mixed feelings on this news. On one hand... Tut! And on the other... "Ooh! Might be easier to use, with a reasonable upgrade price?!"

I am now not sure if it worth the bother of learning Geist's quirks and whatnot, as the quirks may be gone/different in the newer version.

Only just starting to get to grips with it. Still finding the layout/implementation of things a bit counter-intuitive, but it sounds great and I obviously appreciate the potential. Up to this point, regarding percussion for tracks in general, I feel like I have been "getting by" and not really had full control. Been lucky with certain midi patterns, samples etc which fitted my needs very well. Always found a way to process and re-edit things satisfactorily without getting too deep in there, but feel like I will need more flexibility in the future.

Seeing a YouTube clip of Geist intelligently slicing a loop and being able to identify kick, snares etc, is what got me interested initially. So would love it if the new version expands/improves on that type of functionality. Always loved those kinds of features in Transfuser (which I still use from time to time, the random generator is especially fun/useful) but it doesn't have the lengthy arrangement capabilities of Geist.

[dayjob]

i hope that V2 work in progress GUI gets some help from a professional. as it is now it reminds me of a spread sheet.

excel for drums!

there's a lot under the hood of geist and it'll take a lot of planning and thought to give it a good work flow. filling it with little squares and show/hide/collapsable windows gives me a does of the shivers.

edit: should add that i really enjoy the workflow in tremor.. the sound of it as well.

[Dasheesh]

Personally I love the minimalist greyscale approach, it's a computer, not hardware...it's easy on the eyes ,but you have know what you are doing. One word...bauhaus

[dayjob]

Personally I love the minimalist greyscale approach, it's a computer, not hardware...it's easy on the eyes ,but you have know what you are doing. One word...bauhaus

i'm fine with minimal. i _love_ the valhalla GUIs but there are so many parameters in geist that the grouping of all of them has to be done right. there's a difference between minimal and unappealing. workflow is really important with such a complex instrument. i don't find that work in progress screen grab to be something i'd consider to be heading int he right direction.

for example.. something about strobe2.. to me it looks like someone took the "pick a color from the crayon pack" and throw something together.

also, minimal.. look at Unfiltered Audio's "Sandman" or "G8". these are minimal done right imo. they invite the user to do stuff instead of looking like a bundle of parameters dragged into rectangles and squares and then arranged on a larger rectangle...

geist 2 work in progress gui... kind of reminds me of the early reaktor ensembles with clusters of knobs and little boxes with numbers.

[Dasheesh]

I think we have all come to the conclusion the screen is too cluttered. How would you make it better?

form as a result of function. That's what this program is begging for.

[dayjob]

I think we have all come to the conclusion the screen is too cluttered. How would you make it better?

form as a result of function. That's what this program is begging for.

i'm not a GUI designer so i'm the wrong person to ask.

i'd ask a professional. "this is what i have in mind. can we get there?"

it's a complex program and they have a lot to fit in there. it needs a simple up front interface with all the commonly used things and then a "go deeper" or "modulation" tab or something.

i don't envy them. it's going to be quite a task but i can say in no time flat that i prefer the existing gui of geist over that grey green lasers and little boxes of numbers gui they're cooking up.

if it ends up that ugly pile of mess the only way i'd upgrade is if it was like $20 and even then i'd do it begrudgingly.

i hope they have some "ah ha!" moment and it clicks together.

[dayjob]

there are other images in the thread at the FXpansion forum