[ANN] Repro-1

[Gucky]

Hi Urs,
the Prodigy is good but have you heard the Moog Rogue?
I think it sounds much better than the Prodigy.
Here you can hear the Rogue:


That sound in a u-he synth would be fantastic!
Would do you think?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I always remember the Rogue being the "cheap one" compared to the Prodigy and Minimoog, and therefore being a cut down version of the Prodigy. When I was growing up, used Prodigy's were selling for almost double what you could get a Rogue for. This site seems to confirm that:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/rogue.php

Interestingly, the site says the Realistic MG-1 (which I own) is basically an expanded Rogue...can that be right? The MG-1 is by no means an impressive sounding synth IMO (note to self: finally buy slider caps for it).

[Urs]

Well, for now we're busy modeling the Pro One

[buescher]

the Rogue had a couple of great sounds, but seemed so limited, at least for me, back when. maybe I lacked the insight to dig into it. but i found an Odyssey a couple months later, and the Rogue was ignored, until I finally traded it in as part of the payment for a Mini. funny thing, the shop where I got all my vintage synths (Atomic Music in MD) also had Taurus pedals the same time as the Mini, which I just assumed I was going to buy heading into the shop, only to discover that they were basically just a Rogue with a different controller.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

OT: the headphone output my MG-1 is dead, and I don't have RCA patch cables handy to find out whether it's the whole unit or just a single bad output. I just had this thing fully serviced a few years ago. Damn analog junk.

Urs, please model one of every analog synth made in the 70's and 80's so we can stop worrying about nonsense like this. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Urs]

Urs, please model one of every analog synth made in the 70's and 80's so we can stop worrying about nonsense like this. Thanks in advance for your help.

That kind of appeals to me.

I actually wasn't ever interested in modeling more analogue synths, but the necessity of teaching analogue modeling to my staff made me get back into it. I chose the Pro One as a practical example, and it's probably the most difficult to model vintage mono synth out there. I'm sure my guys can do more once we've got this one right (but let's get this one right first before reasoning about what's next)

[bftucker]

I predict that, in not many years, people will be boasting that they studied under Professor Heckmann of Berlin.

Your recent teaching blog posts indicate that you have found yet another area in which to excel.

(Yes, I am a fan and I have the software
and the hoodie
to prove it.)

[Gucky]

Yes, the Rogue is the little brother of Prodigy.
But I think that the sound is different. 25 years ago I heard the Rogue in a concert.
I was was surprised by the powerful sound of that little synth.
A little bit later I bought a Prodigy. I was surprised that the Prodigy sounded much cleaner and had not
the power of the Rogue. I think it could be that the Rogue has a very special saturation/ distortion in the filter or amp section.

[AnX]

Prob used fx chain live.

[Vesius]

Well, probably this one will live or die by the sync sound for me, more than anything. There is nowhere to hide when the feature set is so small! Thankfully, I have a lot of faith in U-He.

As the thread seems to have gone on a bit of a detour, and ended up in feature request land ... for me, I'd love to see U-He's take on much more digital oscillators - a la Waldorf style wavetables - with the ability to hard sync and PM in there for good measure - seems like a good fit for Zebra3 if you ask me . Maybe we could even get into fantasy realms of analog crosstalk between voices on completely digital soundsources All this analog modelling isn't just useful to model specific synths after all ...

Anyhow, super excited to see this one in the flesh, I've been very happy with Diva and Bazille.

[Urs]

Hehehe, I spent the past few days trying to get CPU efficient filter models working at all. This filter has become so complex with different types of (asymmetrical) waveshapers, little current bleeds here and there, realistic scaling of cutoff etc, it's just too much for the cheap methods.

What I'm saying is, for a model as complex as this, there's almost no point in doing the comparison of filter approximation methods. I can break pretty much every cheap method in seconds, like, once I do FilterFM with all 3 waveforms of OSC B switched on and once resonance is set to max. They just explode or add hilarious DC offsets (despite the RC highpass filter...)

So I'm currently trying to find *some* cheap methods that behave well enough to do this, but those "cheap" method's aren't really cheap anymore. I still need to oversample 8x at 44.1/48kHz and I have to cap filter bandwidth at 25kHz. The "expensive" method as used in Diva can go to 50kHz without a glitch.

On a positive note, so far I can copy anything coming out of the Pro One in the RePro and vice versa. It's scary even though sometimes I have to adjust things a little. That is because, even the Pro One can not reproduce its own sound after another 10 or so minutes. There's only little drift, but that drift is enough to change the sound of extreme settings audibly.

Also, I got a few of the audio examples I requested form Pro One owners. There is more variety than I would have expected.

Did you know that some Pro Ones envelopes have Sustain go higher than Attack level? It's funny.

[Vesius]

I feel your pain with exploding feedback (I develop a little bit on the side for giggles as a hobby). In the end my approach was to employ a straight up compressor in the feedback signal in situations like this - but I wasn't interested in emulating anything in particular - just having a filter that didn't fall over. And this was before ZDF or equivalent was a *thing*, integrating that into the algebra would be ... non trivial I suspect. Nor was I looking to release it one day. We have faith though! You'll find a way!

[Urs]

Well, hehehe, the "expensive" method, which is an iterative solver, does the job. Nothing explodes, but while the difference is subtle in boring settings, it's full-on obvious in extreme settings. And we all know that the Pro One is built for extreme settings

[david.beholder]

Did you know that some Pro Ones envelopes have Sustain go higher than Attack level? It's funny.

So it's like attack goes up to 100% and then it has neg decay to 125%?

[Urs]

Did you know that some Pro Ones envelopes have Sustain go higher than Attack level? It's funny.

So it's like attack goes up to 100% and then it has neg decay to 125%?

No, the Attack phase goes further, but roughly 30 times faster. It actually jumps!

Same happens when you set Sustain to a low value with a slow Decay, wait till it's nearly settled and dial Sustain back up - it's instant. But if you lower Sustain, it'll decay at the rate set with the Decay parameter.

I shall provide audio examples one day.