Hello again Sportsfans!
I'm back now it's close to payday. Gonna pull the trigger on either Halion Sonic 3 ($249) OR Kontakt full version ($249 - b/c, yeah, I did the free DrumMic'A download to go for the cool crossgrade price deal, thanks to you guys! Looks like it'll work fine.)
So yes I know, I was gonna do the cheap AIR deal for $60 to get Structure 2 plus all their extras -- but guess what? Nope. After a few days with the free Xpand!2 rompler sounds and instruments (not bad; some very good), I realized with it I probably now HAVE all the best samples they've got, and I really don't need the toys. It's just GREAT finished sampled instrument sounds (especially acoustic) that I'm after, for inspiration and basic song creation. So why spend the $60 on a bit more of the same from AIR, right?
Okay, so I've scraped together the $250 for one of these 2 sweethearts. Question is: Should it be Halion Sonic 3 (apparently with the same library as Halion 5/6)... or the full version of Kontakt??
I know there can be discussion on which has the best technolgy, scripting, finished samples -- but really, at this level of quality (high for both), it probably comes down to included LIBRARIES as much as anything else.
With the free version of Kontakt, what I want in future runs on it. So maybe Halion opens up some new file format possibilities from elsewhere (I don't know), but additional libraries for Halion are apparently scarce.
Any thoughts? Any huge differences between these two as far as what you've experienced in their INCLUDED LIBRARIES?
Thanks for any feedback,
~Billy
Halion Sonic vs. Kontakt ??
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 13 Jul, 2017
Last edited by BillyBoyKVR on Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 15517 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
You should update your title because you are considering Halion Sonic which is not the same as Halion.
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- KVRAF
- 5716 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
I knocked up two very quick demoes using sounds from the Halion 6/Sonic 3 library and the Kontakt factory library. Personally, I don't think there is much between the individual sounds. People tend to bash the Kontakt library but it has a surprising number of decent bread-and-butter sounds. What it doesn't have so much are the workstation-like sounds that turn up in the Halion stock library – things that could have come off a Fantom. But, if you've got Xpand, you've already got a lot of those workstation sounds.
In this very short perhaps not very helpful pair of comparisons, you have the Cello from Halion's Studio Strings package followed by Kontakt's cello, then a Mk1 EP from Halion followed by one from Kontakt. They are using the same MIDI, which I recorded initially in Halion and then transferred to Kontakt. I killed the built-in effects on both and just used a common, medium-room verb.
Personally, I think Kontakt tends to hold up pretty well in these comparisons. But the main strength of Kontakt is the access you get to a lot of material – and there is a lot of free stuff – and the scripting. Although they've have the FlexPhraser for ages, and that works well, scripting is still pretty new in Halion. Sound design OTOH is easier to accomplish in Halion, though realistically you want the full version not Sonic for that. Kontakt has a way of working that lets you do practically anything, but none of it is very easy to get to grips with.
In this very short perhaps not very helpful pair of comparisons, you have the Cello from Halion's Studio Strings package followed by Kontakt's cello, then a Mk1 EP from Halion followed by one from Kontakt. They are using the same MIDI, which I recorded initially in Halion and then transferred to Kontakt. I killed the built-in effects on both and just used a common, medium-room verb.
Personally, I think Kontakt tends to hold up pretty well in these comparisons. But the main strength of Kontakt is the access you get to a lot of material – and there is a lot of free stuff – and the scripting. Although they've have the FlexPhraser for ages, and that works well, scripting is still pretty new in Halion. Sound design OTOH is easier to accomplish in Halion, though realistically you want the full version not Sonic for that. Kontakt has a way of working that lets you do practically anything, but none of it is very easy to get to grips with.
Last edited by Gamma-UT on Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 15517 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
IMO, you're wasting $250. First, I don't agree that Xpand = Structure, but, that's not that big a deal because the AIR deal will probably be around for some time. That said, I don't think that either sample library jumps out and that if you want quality libraries you're probably better off spending that money on Kontakt Player libraries of the things that you actually need.
IMO, the better Kontakt libraries from NI come with Komplete and it's best to wait for a half price sale. Like I said in the first post, I think that you'd get more out of your purchase by installing every free sample based product that you can find until you've figured out what exactly it is that you need.
For example the California Keys bundle is on sale right now which a lot of people really like and, AFAIK, it works in Kontakt player.
If you don't need it now, you're paying too much for either product.
I think that most of us who use Kontakt regularly use it far more often with third party libraries than we do with the factory library.
IMO, the better Kontakt libraries from NI come with Komplete and it's best to wait for a half price sale. Like I said in the first post, I think that you'd get more out of your purchase by installing every free sample based product that you can find until you've figured out what exactly it is that you need.
For example the California Keys bundle is on sale right now which a lot of people really like and, AFAIK, it works in Kontakt player.
If you don't need it now, you're paying too much for either product.
I think that most of us who use Kontakt regularly use it far more often with third party libraries than we do with the factory library.
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- KVRian
- 1454 posts since 2 Mar, 2005
Ill keep it 100 with you.
If we are judging based solely off of the included library for only the price you want to spend of $250... meaning you are looking to buy 1 thing & make music.. then Halion Sonic 3 would be my recommendation.
That being said... Kontakt does have almost an equivalent factory library, but its super old & doesn't really take in most of its technologies to the fullest. Buying Kontakt would mean you DEFINITELY want to buy 3rd party sounds or get the mass amount of free ones available. To find good acoustic sounds, youre gonna spend some money. As stated above, you would be better off saving up for Komplete to get better libraries. The obvious plusses are that Kontakt is super super stable. You can import pretty much most other sample formats as well into Kontakt easily. The effects are ok, but you have TONS of flexibility with them. The question is, do you really want to go down that path?
Halion Sonic 3 is almost like buying a workstation. Its a closed system in that what you get with it is what you get. There are a couple of expansions, but thats it. No importing of sounds, however. Im pretty sure that HS3 has a larger variety of acoustic insttuments, though. And using the flexphraser with those takes it into a new dimension. HS3 has instruments that flow together qithin its interface, so everything is a little more cohesive. Again its just not as expandable as Kontakt is. If you want expandable, you ,could definitely need Halion 3 for an extra $200 or so. This is to import your own sounds, use its granular engine (something Kontakt doesnt have), and take advance of its scripting. Again, there is nowhere near the 3rd party support of what Kontakt has.
I dont think your decision should be based on sounds alone, but what you expect your purchase to do for you. Do you just want to make music and have an instrument... or do you want to expand further and have the access to the best sounds available? Also... how deep is your wallet?
And btw...Xpand2 has some good sounds, but its not a complete picture of the library of Structure.
If we are judging based solely off of the included library for only the price you want to spend of $250... meaning you are looking to buy 1 thing & make music.. then Halion Sonic 3 would be my recommendation.
That being said... Kontakt does have almost an equivalent factory library, but its super old & doesn't really take in most of its technologies to the fullest. Buying Kontakt would mean you DEFINITELY want to buy 3rd party sounds or get the mass amount of free ones available. To find good acoustic sounds, youre gonna spend some money. As stated above, you would be better off saving up for Komplete to get better libraries. The obvious plusses are that Kontakt is super super stable. You can import pretty much most other sample formats as well into Kontakt easily. The effects are ok, but you have TONS of flexibility with them. The question is, do you really want to go down that path?
Halion Sonic 3 is almost like buying a workstation. Its a closed system in that what you get with it is what you get. There are a couple of expansions, but thats it. No importing of sounds, however. Im pretty sure that HS3 has a larger variety of acoustic insttuments, though. And using the flexphraser with those takes it into a new dimension. HS3 has instruments that flow together qithin its interface, so everything is a little more cohesive. Again its just not as expandable as Kontakt is. If you want expandable, you ,could definitely need Halion 3 for an extra $200 or so. This is to import your own sounds, use its granular engine (something Kontakt doesnt have), and take advance of its scripting. Again, there is nowhere near the 3rd party support of what Kontakt has.
I dont think your decision should be based on sounds alone, but what you expect your purchase to do for you. Do you just want to make music and have an instrument... or do you want to expand further and have the access to the best sounds available? Also... how deep is your wallet?
And btw...Xpand2 has some good sounds, but its not a complete picture of the library of Structure.
I read more than post = I listen more than I talk
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 13 Jul, 2017
Gamma-UT: Hey thanks. Not much diff between the e-pianos but I'm liking the Halion Cello. Reminds me of my old Yamaha Motif (and of course it does, since they're connected; Yamaha and Steinway/Halion). Don't have the Motif any longer or I probably wouldn't be here looking for best basic samples. Slight disappointment there with the Kontakt cello. Hmm. Obviously I won't be leaving it at that. But I've been leaning rather strongly toward Kontakt. Now you got me digging deeper! Hehe. Been otherwise very impressed with what they loaded into the free Player.
Ghettosynth: Well, I hear you... but... (and hey, if you own Structure then you'll know how much more it has or hasn't than Xpand!2). I'm not going so much on amount, but rather what I'm hearing for Quality of the natural instruments (which I hear in many Kontakt Free Player samples -- and not so many of Xpand!2's.)
I need to cover all my "bread-and-butter" stuff. Haven't done that yet -- except for, yes, all the free stuff out there like .sfz and .sf2 dregs plus a bit of free UVI... but that just doesn't cut it. And remember, it's natural acoustic instruments I'm most interested in. I'm hearing real quality from my Kontakt free Player stuff, and like, hey, that's what I'm talking about. But I'm now sure there's exceptions there too. Hah.
The Kontakt stuff (generally now... with some very good AIR exceptions) seems a cut above the AIR stuff to me. But then Gamma-UT goes and plays me his cello sample! Bah! (haha) I'll keep digging till payday in a few days -- but I NEED all those basic instruments now that the full Kontakt or similar can give me -- and I want them in the best quality to my ear (and variety doesn't hurt; thus the Xpand!2 free bonus). Guess I figure I already have the best AIR can give me. Maybe I'm wrong there. Sounds like that from your angle. Structure sounds are so much better than Xpand2? Really?? Be honest.
Yes I agree, the 3rd-party Kontakt developers probably offer the sweetest Kontakt stuff. I'm looking at a couple diff of those for down the road. No question. But I need real good bread-and-butter-PLUS now -- and there's some fairly interesting freebies for full Kontakt only as well.
Saukar30: Thank you for that! A lot of good food for thought there. One relevant point is that the free Kontakt Player (which I have of course) allows most of what one wants for it, except the freebies. I don't know what the flexphaser does for Halion sounds, but can imagine. If it turns natural sounds synthetic and unnatural, then it's not for me -- but if naturalness is retained while just turning up the "cool," sure, I'm interested.
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Now on paper (but yeah, I'm digging deep for all Demos I can find now!), Kontakt offers more-than-the-usual Choir choices which interests me. No mention in Halion. And the World Instruments & World Percuss of Halion draws me bigtime too. But then I'm looking at free UVI's very impressive blockbuster "World Suite" ($299; with a HUGE collection of World instruments and loops!) for next month, so that would likely nullify whatever Halion's got. Dunno, maybe Halion's got the sweet exotics no one else has in their 60-instrument World section. (UVI World Suite: 320 instruments, with 8,000 loops!) I need to listen in to Halion's.
Halion hey? Hmm.
Ghettosynth: Well, I hear you... but... (and hey, if you own Structure then you'll know how much more it has or hasn't than Xpand!2). I'm not going so much on amount, but rather what I'm hearing for Quality of the natural instruments (which I hear in many Kontakt Free Player samples -- and not so many of Xpand!2's.)
I need to cover all my "bread-and-butter" stuff. Haven't done that yet -- except for, yes, all the free stuff out there like .sfz and .sf2 dregs plus a bit of free UVI... but that just doesn't cut it. And remember, it's natural acoustic instruments I'm most interested in. I'm hearing real quality from my Kontakt free Player stuff, and like, hey, that's what I'm talking about. But I'm now sure there's exceptions there too. Hah.
The Kontakt stuff (generally now... with some very good AIR exceptions) seems a cut above the AIR stuff to me. But then Gamma-UT goes and plays me his cello sample! Bah! (haha) I'll keep digging till payday in a few days -- but I NEED all those basic instruments now that the full Kontakt or similar can give me -- and I want them in the best quality to my ear (and variety doesn't hurt; thus the Xpand!2 free bonus). Guess I figure I already have the best AIR can give me. Maybe I'm wrong there. Sounds like that from your angle. Structure sounds are so much better than Xpand2? Really?? Be honest.
Yes I agree, the 3rd-party Kontakt developers probably offer the sweetest Kontakt stuff. I'm looking at a couple diff of those for down the road. No question. But I need real good bread-and-butter-PLUS now -- and there's some fairly interesting freebies for full Kontakt only as well.
Saukar30: Thank you for that! A lot of good food for thought there. One relevant point is that the free Kontakt Player (which I have of course) allows most of what one wants for it, except the freebies. I don't know what the flexphaser does for Halion sounds, but can imagine. If it turns natural sounds synthetic and unnatural, then it's not for me -- but if naturalness is retained while just turning up the "cool," sure, I'm interested.
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Now on paper (but yeah, I'm digging deep for all Demos I can find now!), Kontakt offers more-than-the-usual Choir choices which interests me. No mention in Halion. And the World Instruments & World Percuss of Halion draws me bigtime too. But then I'm looking at free UVI's very impressive blockbuster "World Suite" ($299; with a HUGE collection of World instruments and loops!) for next month, so that would likely nullify whatever Halion's got. Dunno, maybe Halion's got the sweet exotics no one else has in their 60-instrument World section. (UVI World Suite: 320 instruments, with 8,000 loops!) I need to listen in to Halion's.
Halion hey? Hmm.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 13 Jul, 2017
Oh, FlexPHRASING. I thought you said FlexPHASING. That's very cool.
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- KVRAF
- 5716 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
Ha ha, sorry. I don't think there's really much between the cellos but I prefer the Kontakt one because it's a bit more natural. The Halion one is from "Studio Strings" so seems a bit more processed, but that would account for it being more like the sound from a Motif or Fantom-type workstation. And that's in keeping with HS's overall approach.
I would echo Ghettosynth on this: wait for a sale, look again at Kontakt/Komplete. You might instead in the meantime take a look at Plogue's Sforzando and CWITEC's TX16Wx. The former is free, the latter comes in a highly capable free version. Then use those to access the many Sfz and soundfont libraries available for nothing before making a decision over which way to go next.
World Suite is good but unless you've got a specific need for a Celtic lap harp or a Moldovan hammered dulcimer, it's probably going to be overkill vs a less extensive library.
I would echo Ghettosynth on this: wait for a sale, look again at Kontakt/Komplete. You might instead in the meantime take a look at Plogue's Sforzando and CWITEC's TX16Wx. The former is free, the latter comes in a highly capable free version. Then use those to access the many Sfz and soundfont libraries available for nothing before making a decision over which way to go next.
World Suite is good but unless you've got a specific need for a Celtic lap harp or a Moldovan hammered dulcimer, it's probably going to be overkill vs a less extensive library.
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- KVRian
- 716 posts since 20 Apr, 2017
Hey if you go the full kontakt route there's some scripts out there for making the included vsl solo orchestral stuff a little better for playing. I know a couple pros who make good use of it when they don't have their big ass libraries on hand.
The scripts are called sips made by some cool cat big bob. Link here...
http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/sips/sips.htm
Should still work with the newest kontakt.
The scripts are called sips made by some cool cat big bob. Link here...
http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/sips/sips.htm
Should still work with the newest kontakt.
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
OK, if you are going to spend $250, you would probably be better off buying some libraries for Kontakt 5 Player, that have the acoustic instruments you want.
A few examples:
Strummed Acoustic 2 - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... coustic-2/
Session Strings - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... n-strings/
Session Horns - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ion-horns/
Take a look at the other stuff that you can load into Player. Or maybe consider saving up a little more and getting Komplete.
I think $250 for a sampler that won't deliver everything you want now may be an expensive mistake.
I have had Kontakt/Komplete on my wish list for several years, and that is what I will most likely eventually get.
But right now I have Structure 2, and Xpand!2, and Kontakt 5 Player. I'm not in a big hurry to buy more.
One thing I will say is that they packed 2500 patches into a 1.5GB library for Xpand!2. Structure weighs in at 37GB, so no, they are not the same. The Structure UI is not as pretty and modern as Kontakt, or HALion, but it is functional.
Structure has all of the essential standard acoustic instruments in it's library. I cannot find anything missing. It has acoustic drums and percussion, orchestral elements, keyboards, pitched percussion, guitars, basses, pop brass & woods, world, etc. By combining this with a few great libraries for Kontakt Player, I think you could cover anything you wanted.
A few examples:
Strummed Acoustic 2 - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... coustic-2/
Session Strings - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... n-strings/
Session Horns - $99
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ion-horns/
Take a look at the other stuff that you can load into Player. Or maybe consider saving up a little more and getting Komplete.
I think $250 for a sampler that won't deliver everything you want now may be an expensive mistake.
I have had Kontakt/Komplete on my wish list for several years, and that is what I will most likely eventually get.
But right now I have Structure 2, and Xpand!2, and Kontakt 5 Player. I'm not in a big hurry to buy more.
One thing I will say is that they packed 2500 patches into a 1.5GB library for Xpand!2. Structure weighs in at 37GB, so no, they are not the same. The Structure UI is not as pretty and modern as Kontakt, or HALion, but it is functional.
Structure has all of the essential standard acoustic instruments in it's library. I cannot find anything missing. It has acoustic drums and percussion, orchestral elements, keyboards, pitched percussion, guitars, basses, pop brass & woods, world, etc. By combining this with a few great libraries for Kontakt Player, I think you could cover anything you wanted.
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 13 Jul, 2017
You guys make some good points... Thx to Armagibbon for the sips tip. zzz00m: yes in fact those EXACT THREE $99 Kontakt exp. libraries were what I was looking at before I even came to make this post above. Haha. How'd you know?
And in fact, as far as Komplete goes, those 3 are pretty much the only stuff I'm interested in out of it (Strummed Acoustic 2 isn't included -- only the first one which is not near as good, imo) -- so Komplete is not really for me regardless of which way I go. But thanks for the advice.
And but hey... guess what?? None of that matters any more (right now anyway)... 'cuz I think I just got CONVERTED today!
Yep. It's HALion for me now boys! Suddenly. And not just Sonic either, but the whole deep-dish enchilada: HALion 6. (I'll scrape up the extra hundred somehow. I don't eat much anyway. Haha!)
Hoo-boy... That is one majorly IMPRESSIVE, deep mess of sampling gear and VERY DECENT factory library there, I'm thinkin' friends. But you probably know that.
See the thing is: (especially) their Hot Brass and Studio Strings instruments are more impressive to me than Kontakt's factory stuff -- enough that I actually don't see need for upgrades like NI Session Strings and Session Horns like for Kontakt. For the time being anyway. Hey, maybe these add-ons for K have got some further features, but the Quality is already there in H6 for my purposes. We'll see.
As you probably know, there's an awful lot to this setup. It's massive! Full of features. Even the acoustic guitars, with already setup key-switching and Flexphrasing, cover some of what Strummed Acoustic 2 can do (but no, won't be anywhere near the richness and number of pattern choices OR the sound of those sampled beauties, the Martin and Guild 12-string, of SA2) but... that can be picked up for K Free later -- along with whatever else down the road.
So yes, I COULD get the same library and playing capability with Sonic -- but then, like was said earlier, it's a closed-off system. Nowhere to go with it compared to NI. Makes no sense, therefore, not to cough up the extra $100 and get a wide-open, mind-blowing state-of-the-art, pot-bellied, industrial Sampler as well, hey? Hehe. Sure, I'll have to grow into it... hardly know what I'm doing yet. But then there's no limits over the rainbow. It can import samples of whatever kind into infinity (not to mention recording or making your own or from other stuff; which, who knows? I may get into eventually).
Only bummer is I was really looking forward to the cool Choir choices (unusually wide selection, with vowel-tuning for them and everything) in Kontakt Full. Bah!
1. Now surely, with 3,400 freaking instrument Presets in H6, there must be some half decent choir sounds in there. Anyone know? Can't find a sample/instrument list from these guys anywhere!
2. The other question I have is: H6 looks like it's supposed to run no prob as plug-in for any DAW, like my Ableton Live (designed really for CuBase), but I wonder how stable it is? Saw a few out there with some tech issues. But I suppose that's par for the course. Or...?
Also btw, UVI's World Suite is far from just a collection of strange instruments from somewhere out in the sticks. Hehe. I think you'll find it's a pretty smashing collection of rich possibilities, actually -- entire landscapes, many carefully programmed scenes of exotic wonders. A major piece of sound-engineering this. Genius, I'm thinking! Whether you use a whole set OR just lift an instrument/voice to add some flavour to your next track. It's freaking amazing! Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcJK5wFb88
And in fact, as far as Komplete goes, those 3 are pretty much the only stuff I'm interested in out of it (Strummed Acoustic 2 isn't included -- only the first one which is not near as good, imo) -- so Komplete is not really for me regardless of which way I go. But thanks for the advice.
And but hey... guess what?? None of that matters any more (right now anyway)... 'cuz I think I just got CONVERTED today!
Yep. It's HALion for me now boys! Suddenly. And not just Sonic either, but the whole deep-dish enchilada: HALion 6. (I'll scrape up the extra hundred somehow. I don't eat much anyway. Haha!)
Hoo-boy... That is one majorly IMPRESSIVE, deep mess of sampling gear and VERY DECENT factory library there, I'm thinkin' friends. But you probably know that.
See the thing is: (especially) their Hot Brass and Studio Strings instruments are more impressive to me than Kontakt's factory stuff -- enough that I actually don't see need for upgrades like NI Session Strings and Session Horns like for Kontakt. For the time being anyway. Hey, maybe these add-ons for K have got some further features, but the Quality is already there in H6 for my purposes. We'll see.
As you probably know, there's an awful lot to this setup. It's massive! Full of features. Even the acoustic guitars, with already setup key-switching and Flexphrasing, cover some of what Strummed Acoustic 2 can do (but no, won't be anywhere near the richness and number of pattern choices OR the sound of those sampled beauties, the Martin and Guild 12-string, of SA2) but... that can be picked up for K Free later -- along with whatever else down the road.
So yes, I COULD get the same library and playing capability with Sonic -- but then, like was said earlier, it's a closed-off system. Nowhere to go with it compared to NI. Makes no sense, therefore, not to cough up the extra $100 and get a wide-open, mind-blowing state-of-the-art, pot-bellied, industrial Sampler as well, hey? Hehe. Sure, I'll have to grow into it... hardly know what I'm doing yet. But then there's no limits over the rainbow. It can import samples of whatever kind into infinity (not to mention recording or making your own or from other stuff; which, who knows? I may get into eventually).
Only bummer is I was really looking forward to the cool Choir choices (unusually wide selection, with vowel-tuning for them and everything) in Kontakt Full. Bah!
1. Now surely, with 3,400 freaking instrument Presets in H6, there must be some half decent choir sounds in there. Anyone know? Can't find a sample/instrument list from these guys anywhere!
2. The other question I have is: H6 looks like it's supposed to run no prob as plug-in for any DAW, like my Ableton Live (designed really for CuBase), but I wonder how stable it is? Saw a few out there with some tech issues. But I suppose that's par for the course. Or...?
Also btw, UVI's World Suite is far from just a collection of strange instruments from somewhere out in the sticks. Hehe. I think you'll find it's a pretty smashing collection of rich possibilities, actually -- entire landscapes, many carefully programmed scenes of exotic wonders. A major piece of sound-engineering this. Genius, I'm thinking! Whether you use a whole set OR just lift an instrument/voice to add some flavour to your next track. It's freaking amazing! Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcJK5wFb88
Last edited by BillyBoyKVR on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 15517 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
So, to be clear, I have Halion 6, Kontakt (with Komplete) and Structure. Halion 6 is reasonably stable. It is not as stable standalone as Kontakt is, IMO. For me though, the value of Halion is in the ability to create instruments. I actually prefer to use Halion Sonic SE as my plugin so that my projects are compatible across all of my systems without moving my USB dongle. Halion comes with Halion Sonic.BillyBoyKVR wrote:You guys make some good points... Thx to Armagibbon for the sips tip. zzz00m: yes in fact those EXACT THREE $99 Kontakt exp. libraries were what I was looking at before I even came to make this post above. Haha. How'd you know?
And in fact, as far as Komplete goes, those 3 are pretty much the only stuff I'm interested in out of it (Strummed Acoustic 2 isn't included -- only the first one which is not near as good, imo) -- so Komplete is not really for me regardless of which way I go. But thanks for the advice.
And but hey... guess what?? None of that matters any more (right now anyway)... 'cuz I think I just got CONVERTED today!
Yep. It's HALion for me now boys! Suddenly. And not just Sonic either, but the whole deep-dish enchilada: HALion 6. (I'll scrape up the extra hundred somehow. I don't eat much anyway. Haha!)
Hoo-boy... That is one majorly IMPRESSIVE, deep mess of sampling gear and VERY DECENT factory library there, I'm thinkin' friends. But you probably know that.
See the thing is: (especially) their Hot Brass and Studio Strings instruments are more impressive to me than Kontakt's factory stuff -- enough that I actually don't see need for upgrades like NI Session Strings and Session Horns like for Kontakt. For the time being anyway. Hey, maybe these add-ons for K have got some further features, but the Quality is already there in H6 for my purposes. We'll see.
As you probably know, there's an awful lot to this setup. It's massive! Full of features. Even the acoustic guitars, with already setup key-switching and Flexphrasing, cover some of what Strummed Acoustic 2 can do (but no, won't be anywhere near the richness and number of pattern choices OR the sound of those sampled beauties, the Martin and Guild 12-string, of SA2) but... that can be picked up for K Free later -- along with whatever else down the road.
So yes, I COULD get the same library and playing capability with Sonic -- but then, like was said earlier, it's a closed-off system. Nowhere to go with it compared to NI. Makes no sense, therefore, not to cough up the extra $100 and get a wide-open, mind-blowing state-of-the-art, pot-bellied, industrial Sampler as well, hey? Hehe. Sure, I'll have to grow into it... hardly know what I'm doing yet. But then there's no limits over the rainbow. It can import samples of whatever kind into infinity (not to mention recording or making your own or from other stuff; which, who knows? I may get into eventually). The Golden Sampler to take me all the way into digital audio Heaven! Hah. (Well, that and the super-cala-fragalistic UVI WORLD SUITE I'm still gonna try and pick up next month!)
Only bummer is I was really looking forward to the cool Choir choices (unusually wide selection, with vowel-tuning for them and everything) in Kontakt Full. Bah!
1. Now surely, with 3,400 freaking instrument Presets in H6, there must be some half decent choir sounds in there. Anyone know? Can't find a sample/instrument list from these guys anywhere!
2. The other question I have is: H6 looks like it's supposed to run no prob as plug-in for any DAW, like my Ableton Live (designed really for CuBase), but I wonder how stable it is? Saw a few out there with some tech issues. But I suppose that's par for the course. Or...?
Also btw, UVI's World Suite is far from just a collection of strange instruments from somewhere out in the sticks. Hehe. I think you'll find it's a pretty smashing collection of rich possibilities, actually -- entire landscapes, many carefully programmed scenes of exotic wonders. A major piece of sound-engineering this. Genius, I'm thinking! Whether you use a whole set OR just lift an instrument/voice to add some flavour to your next track. It's freaking amazing! Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcJK5wFb88
As far as choir sounds, I wouldn't know really, but, and at the risk of repeating myself, that is one of the areas where plugin libraries can cost a lot, depending on what you mean by "half decent", it is definitely something that I would consider looking outside of the core libraries.
There are about 30 patches under "choir" spread out across the Halion and Halion Sonic libraries with another 20 or so in the synth libraries, so expect them to have a more synthetic sound.
Steinberg has sales, but not quite as often or as predictable as NI's sales. You can get Halion 6 for $249 once you have Kontakt (MachFive, Falcon, and Omnisphere also qualify).
Also I wouldn't discount Komplete quite so easily, there are a quite a few bits and bobs spread out throughout the package that may not be immediately obvious to you.
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- KVRAF
- 5716 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
The point I was making about this was not that it's full of obscure instruments but that, if all you want is something a little 'exotic' in a track, it's serious overkill. World Suite is for those situations where you want particular instruments but don't want to buy specific libraries, such as the Ilya Efimov Duduk (which is deeper than the one in World Suite) for the job. The way a lot of the articulations are handled using keyswitches are not exactly intuitive unless you have experience with the real instruments or are good on picking up on them in videos of performances. That's particularly apparent on instruments such as the Celtic pipes.BillyBoyKVR wrote:Also btw, UVI's World Suite is far from just a collection of strange instruments from somewhere out in the sticks. Hehe. I think you'll find it's a pretty smashing collection of rich possibilities, actually -- entire landscapes, many carefully programmed scenes of exotic wonders. A major piece of sound-engineering this. Genius, I'm thinking! Whether you use a whole set OR just lift an instrument/voice to add some flavour to your next track. It's freaking amazing!
The target user for World Suite is the music-for-video composer who has been told by the director "I want some of that Turkish guitar that looks like a lute".
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 23 posts since 13 Jul, 2017
Gamma-UT: Ah, gotcha! Thx.
Ghettosynth: Thanks for comments. Helpful. What would you (or others) say any solo Sax's (sampled) are like in H6? Any good in your opinion? Like great articulations? Natural realism? Can't seem to find any examples played. Same with any for full version Kontakt. Can't find examples... except for expensive 3rd party stuff of course.
Komplete...? Well, I guess I'll just have to let some more light dawn on me there to see why I want it. Lol. Just too many possible directions, too little dough. Plus real interest only in sampled acoustic instruments.
See... the thing of it is for me, right here right now: With one mid-size expenditure (like say, $250 (or stretched to $350 for H6), what I've been talking), I want to increase in a relatively BROAD way, with high (or "higher") quality SAMPLES (not synthetic), my overall musical instrument count and capability. Spending that same dough on 1 or 2 (or 3) excellent quality 3rd party Kontakt instruments, for example, will be nice -- but for the moment that method moves me ahead in too narrow a way. Once I take a step like H6, let's say... well THEN (like the NEXT month after -- unless I go for the World Suite, Lol) I could start specializing, as in like 3rd party Kontakt stuff. See what I mean?
Ghettosynth: Thanks for comments. Helpful. What would you (or others) say any solo Sax's (sampled) are like in H6? Any good in your opinion? Like great articulations? Natural realism? Can't seem to find any examples played. Same with any for full version Kontakt. Can't find examples... except for expensive 3rd party stuff of course.
Komplete...? Well, I guess I'll just have to let some more light dawn on me there to see why I want it. Lol. Just too many possible directions, too little dough. Plus real interest only in sampled acoustic instruments.
See... the thing of it is for me, right here right now: With one mid-size expenditure (like say, $250 (or stretched to $350 for H6), what I've been talking), I want to increase in a relatively BROAD way, with high (or "higher") quality SAMPLES (not synthetic), my overall musical instrument count and capability. Spending that same dough on 1 or 2 (or 3) excellent quality 3rd party Kontakt instruments, for example, will be nice -- but for the moment that method moves me ahead in too narrow a way. Once I take a step like H6, let's say... well THEN (like the NEXT month after -- unless I go for the World Suite, Lol) I could start specializing, as in like 3rd party Kontakt stuff. See what I mean?
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- KVRAF
- 3508 posts since 12 May, 2011
If all you're after is sample libraries, HALion/Sonic is a waste of time. 3rd party libraries are all but non-existent. The "real" sounds in HALion are barely ok. Eg, the only choir (that sounds anywhere near human) is the mellotron one.
I love HALion and use it on every project but when I want "real" instruments I go elsewhere.
I love HALion and use it on every project but when I want "real" instruments I go elsewhere.
